#12 Rostock: a "Smile City"

Episode 12 July 27, 2022 00:39:43
#12 Rostock: a "Smile City"
Smart in the City – The BABLE Podcast
#12 Rostock: a "Smile City"

Jul 27 2022 | 00:39:43


Hosted By

Tamlyn Shimizu

Show Notes

At this new stop on our journey toward a better urban life, we discuss digitalisation, citizen engagement, mobility and more with Claus Ruhe Madsen, former Mayor of the city of Rostock: the German 'Smile City'.


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Overview of the episode:


 02:25 - Teaser: Learn Fun Facts about the city of Rostock

03:40 - What's our guest's background?

07:45 - Hear about Claus' favourite projects and what he is passionate about.

11:42 - Data protection in Germany: a hot topic

19:10 - How can we ensure that a project has the right impact?

20:40 - Knowledge transfer from Scandinavia: how we can learn better from each other

23:10 - Participative decision-making in Rostock

25:00 - What are Rostock's mobility goals?

34:30 - Roll with the Punchesour guest answers "this or that" questions

36:06 -  Ending Question: To you, what is a Smart City?


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View Full Transcript

Episode Transcript

Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:00:00 There was, uh, only boxes with papers. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, I asked them, what is that? Uh, are we moving? No, no. How that, that's the papers from all of our citizens with their data. Speaker 2 00:00:18 Welcome to Smart in the City - The BABLE Podcast. I am your host Tamlyn Shimizu and really at BABLE, we aim to connect the players in the smart city industry with high-quality information and ideas through our platform and services. This podcast is really an extension of this goal and mission to drive the change for a better urban light. So today we are travelling, um, to Northern Germany, to a city called Rostock, um, giving way to the Baltic sea on the north. And the city is also home to the oldest university and the Baltic region and home to the first foreign mayor of a large German city. Um, and so sitting with me live at the urban future conference in Helsingborg is indeed its Lord Mayor, uh, Claus Ruhe Madsen. So, yeah. Welcome Claus. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:01:13 Thank you. Speaker 2 00:01:14 <laugh> so nice to have you here. And, uh, it got sunny for us actually, too. So, um, yeah, Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:01:20 I have, uh, we had a lot of rain and now we have best weather. So, uh, I'm, I'm excited about this, uh, talk with you. Speaker 2 00:01:27 Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's really a pleasure. And so you're actually from Denmark,is that correct? Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:01:32 Yes. It's only, uh, I think five kilometers from here. I can see Denmark from here. Yeah. On the other side. And, uh, I was born in Copenhagen and lived there for 20 years and then I went to Germany. I wanted to learn the world for one year and never came back. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:01:47 Oh, interesting. So we'll definitely dig into this background a bit more coming up. Um, but uh, just to get us a bit warmed up, get the juices flowing. Um, I'm wondering if you can tell me think of a fun fact about Rostock. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:02:04 A fun fact. <laugh> okay. That's a difficult one. I think I, I used to tell the people that Rostock has one very big, uh, effort or that's from God made. And that's because we have a nice river. We have the best beach and we have a, a nice, uh, wood, um, or forest. And, um, then we have a lot of tradition, old, uh, house that was a protection against the Danes <laugh> and the funny one is now they have a Danish Mayor. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:02:38 <laugh> you invaded Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:02:40 Yes. It didn't really work. 800 years later. We were there. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:02:44 <laugh> the Danish always come back. Right. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:02:48 As you know, I don't know if, you know, when you look out of the, from here, you see the castle over there and that's the Hamlet castle from Shakespeare, ah, Kronborg, it's over there. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:02:59 Oh, that's quite cool. I will have to go check that out next. Um, so yeah, thanks for, uh, playing a bit and now, um, it, I think we could, your background's obviously quite interesting. So how did you end up in Germany as a Dan? Um, can you tell me a bit about your background and why Rostock? Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:03:19 Yeah. You know, as a young guy, you go to, to in Denmark, you go to, uh, a test by the doctors. If you can go to the military and if you pass that, then you pull a number. And if it's a very low number, you have to go to the military. If it's a high number, you, you don't have to. I had a high number, but I wanted to go to the guard for the Queen and they pick all of the guys that, uh, do it voluntarily. But my dad said class, that's not a good idea to dig coals in our, in the forest for one year <laugh> please go, uh, see something. Uh, so I, I said, okay, I took my, my bag and, uh, about 400 euros, and went to Germany, I thought for one year. And, uh, I've been there now, I guess for 25 years. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:04:04 So I, at the, I started in a retail store for furniture, and I really love that. I love the customers and speaking with people because it's very interesting. They tell everything about themselves. We have a cat, here's the yellow carpet, whatever, because they describe you their home. Or this is my new wife or anything else. We got a child and now we need furniture. So you learn a lot about the people and you learn a lot, a lot about people in common. I loved it. So I, I started my own furniture store and then we started a few furniture stores and I became a, um, president of commerce, uh, in, in Rostock mm-hmm <affirmative> we have 36,000, uh, companies, and I was the president and it wasn't the area of the Bundeskanzlerin Merkel. And she asked me one day 'Claus, what do you think about becoming mayor of Rostock' <laugh>? Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:04:59 And I thought, oh, that's really a nice question. Uh, and, uh, I thought was perhaps because I was a good president and then the other, uh, labor party also asked me 'Claus wouldn't you become a mayor?' And I was figuring for one month, and then I called both of them and said, I would do that, but I would do it on my own. So I don't have a party. Um, uh, that's something very interesting and also different to Denmark in, in Roth stock. And in Germany, the citizens, uh, elect their mayor, not the party. So, so I don't have them. And the citizens voted for me and my first day in my office and it fits a little, so a theme for today, I went inside the door, close the door, and that was my desk. And I thought, oh, Claus now you're a mayor. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:05:41 Nobody told me because I had no advisor, you know, and I was watching my desk and it was full with paper. And I thought, oh, my colleague, my former colleague, he had couldn't, he had clean up his desk for me. And I found out it was a paper for one day. So I worked hard. Paper was gone. Then I tried to start my computer and it didn't really work. So I get the secretary and ask her, Hey, is there something wrong with this computer? I don't get it. And then she said, close. I think the former mayor never turned that on. Woo. So that was the moment I knew we are gonna do a lot of work here to get digitalization working in Rostock. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:06:19 Yeah. The digitalization, um, uh, problem in Germany is actually quite astounding, right. Sometimes. And I think every, I, Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:06:28 You really have to live there to get it. Most people, when I describe, as Corona started, uh, I sent home all of my employees. And then I found out that it's only 50 people from two and a half thousand who were able to get on our server from, from home. Uh, so we really started on yeah. One step behind zero. Yeah. Uh, and it's a lot about mindset and you, you have to, to collect the people to motivate them, to get the understanding that they have a, a worth in doing that, that they, that we can help them, the citizens, but also the employees. Yeah, I think, but I guess we gonna get on that one when we talk about the Smart City Rostock, because it's had a special name. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:07:12 Yes. And, uh, maybe it would be good if you talked about a little bit of your work then, so, um, maybe one of your favorite projects or something you're very passionate about, is it, is it digitalization? Is it bicycling? Is it all of the above? Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:07:28 I think that when you start a job like a mayor, you, first of all, you want to make people happy. You want to develop your city. That was also the claim of my campaign, develop Rostock, move Rostock, uh, because you, you live there. You, I have my family there and I think how should Rostock be tomorrow? And I had a lot of ideas. What, what, for me, as a person would be important. And I thought that would be so for a lot of other peoples after having a year after the election, unfortunately COVID Corona came. And, um, that was a kind of new work from one day to the other. I was a crisis manager. And, um, now, uh, really, really sadly, we have this war Ukraine. Yeah. Which means we have a lot of refugees in Rostock that lives 210,000 citizens. And we have now, uh, almost 3000, uh, people from Ukraine. So that's a lot for, for the size of our city, but we, we are really happy to help those people, but it's a hard work to get them in Tamlyn Shimizu 00:08:30 Housing. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:08:31 Yes. Really in good housing, we only had 1.5%, uh, housing and free, uh, or what is it called? Tamlyn Shimizu 00:08:38 Yeah. Available. Yeah. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:08:39 Available. So, so we are working hard on how to get those people. Uh, so that, that was a crisis. What are my favorites? When in the middle of Corona, we, we, we had, um, the possibility to get, become one of the smart cities of Germany. And I often had this discussion with employees and citizens about digitalization. 'It's dangerous. It's about data secure.' They're all afraid about that. So I thought it shouldn't be smart city, or it should be smile city Rostock kind of a further development of smart city. Yeah. It's more than just being digital. It's about, um, happy living together. And, uh, my, my second, uh, mayor said, Claus, we don't need a second state claim. Uh, I said, uh, why not? What is our city claim? He looked at me and said, I, I don't really know. See, that's the reason we should keep it simple. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:09:35 So if I meet someone today and I ask, okay, I, I know you, you're not quite into digitalization or what do we think about smile? You can have smile, citizens, smile, sports, smile, science, you can transform it to everything. And the people love it because they, they - it's a kind of a new mindset. It's not about hardware. It's not about buying computers. It's how, how we should work at a center administration. It's very important to understand the different mindset of Danish and German people. For instance, in, in Denmark, the administrations are very, um, focused on, on the citizens mm-hmm <affirmative> and their wishes. And they kind of work with the eyes from the citizen and in Germany, it's a very strong 'Verwaltung' administration, it's traditional very strong. It's good. It's really good. But the new age in, in that we are coming into this, uh, digital world is not really 'Verwaltung' and, uh, that's the reason why it's a tough one. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:10:34 And then you have to, um, motivate people to, to be a part of it. COVID was kind of good on that one. Yeah. I am with Winston Churchill that never, uh, never lose a, a good crisis or don't go pass a good crisis. Yeah. Um, I think that's one, um, it made a lot of people open their eyes. Now they know what what's is mobile working or homeschooling. And we learned a lot about new technologies and I think a lot of people lost their frightness about the data protection. Yeah. But it's still such Tamlyn Shimizu 00:11:12 A hot topic in, in Germany. And people are, you know, rightfully to a certain extent they want to protect their data. And, and I, I understand that completely, of course, we don't want to, um, give up what is ours, right. What, um, could be our personal, um, identity and data, um, and sometimes dangerous to do so. So how do we change people's, uh, perception on that to understand, and to trust, I guess it's really a trust issue, right? That they have to trust the government to say, um, we will take your, your data, but we will not use, like, not the personal data. We will use it properly. We will store it properly. How do you, how do you build, build that trust? Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:11:52 I think one of the very important topics is that everybody understands that we need your data. Yeah. For, for different things. If you, you have a car and we have to register it, mm-hmm <affirmative>. And, uh, I I've seen it on, on COVID. We had to vaccinate people and in Germany, they do did it on paper. And I went to my, my, um, uh, the, the area where we vaccinate the people. And I went backstage and was looking like a, a company who, uh, I don't know, what's called an English. When you move, uh, from one flat to the other, you need this company, a moving company. It looked like a moving company bus, because backstage, it was from, from, from the button to the cealing, uh, to the, there was only boxes with papers. Yeah. Yeah. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:12:42 And, um, I asked them, what is that? Uh, are we moving? No, no. Claus said, that's the papers from all of our citizens with their datas. And I said, what do we do with that? Are we gonna transport that to the other city? We have made a deal with them. They they're gonna digital it, uh, to scan it, say, okay, how, how far are we on that one? Yeah. Close. It's a little, we have a problem because all of the papers have been, uh, uh, click together. So now we have a one stapled stapled. Yeah. Now we have one, one guy sitting there pulling out the staples. Oh no. And I asked him, that's the moment where I ask a citizen. What do you think? What is safer to have the, the stuff digital or in a box? What if we lose one box, one of hundred boxes. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:13:27 We wouldn't really reckon that. What if somebody opens a box and read this inside? I guess when you do this digital, you can always see who was there. What were they doing? You have a kind of a trace. Yeah. If somebody takes a box from the room and walks out, you don't have any traces. So I think that's it's should, we should learn that it's the safe one, but we should also learn to respect it that it's not allowed just to look in Claus' papers. How is he doing? What, what, what his, his, uh, manual on, uh, his illness or anything else. So it's very, very important that the people that, uh, work with the datas, that they are highly builded, uh, that they, uh, educated, that they, uh, understand about the importance that they don't give those data to anybody else. There's a Eastland, a land. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:14:21 Mm-hmm, <affirmative> a country there. The authorities has to tell you if they look in your datas and they have to tell you why they did it. Yeah. And if they can't explain it, it's illegal. And I like that. I think it's good. If they tell me close, we were looking at your papers because, okay. Yeah. There has to be a reason. Yes. In Rostock you have to go to a lot of, um, administration areas for different stuff. And I don't really like that. I think it should be like, exactly. I think it would be better. We have all of your data in one place. And if you need something from you, if we interact, then I can give you that you don't have to walk from one place to another. And that's also important for older people. Yeah. We should remember that, that they, they, some of those go in the south of the city with the papers come there and the people say, oh, I'm really sorry. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:15:11 You don't have all of the papers that you had needed today. They have to come back. Maybe they are in the wrong place. Yeah. And I think if we learn to do all of that digital, then you can get a reminder, oh, there's still no photo of you or something like that. Mm-hmm <affirmative> then in your neighbour or even your, your kid or somebody can help you if you don't really. Uh, so, so we have a lot of discussion about the older people, but I think it's wrong. I think that we could let them participate a lot more in a digital world than in a analog world. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:15:43 Yeah. Yeah. So is that the main focus of smile city or what is Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:15:47 It's one of the main, you know, in Rostock, when a kid is born, a child, a baby is born, um, the, the mom or dad has to come to the city hall and pick up papers. I think that's really not good. I would like, uh, them to care about the kid about the baby <laugh> and I should care about, uh, the papers. Yeah. And that's how it should be the administration. Uh, so it's all about, um, what is focus from citizen side? What is important for me? What should Claus do for me? But I have the, the other question, what can you do for the city? And kind of, if somebody says we want more trees that's okay. Let's we want a green city. Yes. Where do we want them? I want them in this part of the city. Okay. Um, then you come and help me to plant them. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:16:37 And, um, when, when that is done, you help me to care about the, the plants and the, the trees mm-hmm <affirmative> so that you, you don't own just only say, I want this, I want that. So how can you participate as a citizen? And that that's also a higher value. We just opened a city park and the kids could wish and front, what do we want to have? They ordered minigolf they have a parcour they have green areas. And, um, there were big trampoline. Yeah. And, um, the great thing is that those kids have now the possibility as a kid to, uh, try that normally, I guess, with the, with the processes that we have in the administration, you, you wish this as a kid and you can see it as a parent. Mm-hmm <affirmative> because it takes far too long. So those kids now were, they were very happy. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:17:30 They were in a city park and telling the other friends, I have been wishing this and see how it's come to alive. And that's, what is it about to take your citizens wish vicious and get into action and then develop and do it together alone. Yeah. It's, it's not always simple because not everything is possible. I have some school kids in my office and I always ask them, it's always allowed as a kid or a senior. They can always, uh, break into a, a, a, a meeting. Uh, and, and then they come into my office and they are allowed to sit on my chair and then can make one wish <laugh>. I always ask them, do I want the wish for your personal or for, for the city, 90% of the kids want the, uh, personal, Tamlyn Shimizu 00:18:18 I thought you were gonna say city, but no. Yes, but Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:18:20 They're good politicals. So, so they want something personal and some of them want the candy, uh, machines all over in city. I'm not sure that that is possible, but, but is kinda funny. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:18:32 Yeah. Very funny. And so with, um, smile city, I, I think correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe you got around 8 million, um, euros for federal, from federal funding for the implementation of Smile City. So I guess, how can you ensure that it really has the impact that you want it to have? Like, what are the steps that you take? So you have all these visions and all these things you want to do. But I think a lot of the times obviously deciding and prioritizing what to implement is very difficult. And, um, yes, maybe sometimes you don't have the impact that you wanted, or do you have any examples of that? Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:19:09 It can only be a kickoff. Yeah. It's, it's, it's a starting, uh, process it's, uh, helping the cities, uh, to start with this process. It's, Rostock, it's very strongly, uh, a mindset thing. Mm-hmm, <affirmative>, it's not about, about buying iPads for kids or something like that. Someone, uh, some for instance, uh, the, the mindset about environment and, uh, sustainability about energy, about solar and a lot of these things and smart, you need, uh, an app for your city, but I, I talked to a lot of other mayors and I said, I would really love that it is not a was app. I would love that it is a city app. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know, that my app knows, oh, clouds you're in Herbo or, oh, clouds you on lip Munich or Berlin or not. I have to take in every city, another app, the was app, the Sik app. That's not cool. So, so I think that would be one of the really cool things that they, Tamlyn Shimizu 00:20:09 A German-wide kind of platform. Yeah. For city Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:20:12 Or Europe, whatever I'm in a new city, how to drive the bus. How's the payment system here. I don't really know. And I I'm, I'm not good at that. I, I admit, but I would love it to, I push the button. I'm I'm going on the bus, please play, and I'm going off the bus, please stop paying. Yeah. And, and that's how it should be, you know? And, and it's kind of, every one of us has an idea. That's good, but it would be better. We combine the ideas. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:20:40 So more collaboration across cities and across all of Europe. . So what do you think is, so we're sitting in, in the Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:20:47 difficult is that there's a lot of, uh, um, where, what should say development, uh, steps where we are far behind Scandinavia. Yeah. And so we should learn from them. I, I go often to Scandinavian cities and ask them, can I please steal your idea <laugh> and they say, sure, class, we send you all what you need. And, and, and perhaps I can develop that a little and I can give it back. Yeah. It's about being, that's a part of smart cities being curious, curious, Tamlyn Shimizu 00:21:20 Curious. Yeah. Curious Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:21:21 You. Yeah. You, you have to go somewhere and really ask how do you do that? Oh, interesting. I often learn, uh, processes style at lasts 10 years. And if you, if you steal them, you, maybe you could do it in two years. Yeah. So, so that's what it's about in Germany should learn not to talk about getting close to the leader. They should work on getting the leader again. Mm-hmm <affirmative> yeah. I think that's, if you have to aim a little higher to get faster, so yeah. We should work better together. That smart city is also is a claim from smart city. We learn from each other. Yeah. And we teach each other. Yeah. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:21:57 Um, that's actually a big part of our mission as well. Is this like sharing the lessons learned, um, and, uh, replicating it, scaling it up and, uh, really doing this cross border as well. So, Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:22:10 And that's also about confidence. Yeah. You know, if you do something alone and then you hear, you hear some critics or you think, oh, I think I'm on the wrong road here. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. But if you hear everybody has to do those steps, have to do those learnings, then you know, okay. It's normal. It's normal. We, we discussed mobility. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, you know, if you, everybody, the opinion, we have to change something, we have to move in another way, go by bicycle or stuff like that. And then you say, we, we gonna change this street to a bicycle street. Mm-hmm <affirmative> everybody says, that's a good idea. And then you says, it's exactly this street we're gonna change. No, no, no, no, no. Claus. Please take another street. Yeah. That's the problem. We know when we abstract, everybody finds such a very good idea. And when we get very concrete and say, this is our project, then there's a lot of discussions, but we it's important to, to get through that in, in, you know, participants or what is it called when you, when you ask citizens, how are your opinions? Tamlyn Shimizu 00:23:12 Yeah. Participative, Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:23:13 Participative. You should also have a, we have a, um, running, uh, going on process. Okay. So we, we start a project and say, this is a pilot. Yeah. And please tell me what is good about it. What is not good? And then we can change mm-hmm <affirmative> Germany. It's often like you plan 110% and you don't get started. Yeah. And it's a little better to accept 80%, start, and, and then the citizen can say, class, we do that. I have a problem with this. Then we try to solve it. And then we, we get better. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:23:45 Yeah. You can always adapt and change and get input and feedback Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:23:49 A little, like, I don't think it's allowed to make a commercial, but a little like an iPhone, you know, <laugh> every, every two years a new iPhone, uh, better vision. Yeah. And that's how we should work a little like this, uh, thought about we can do better. That's okay. And it's no shame to start something that isn't perfect. I think I really like that because that's how you learn. You learn when you do a little mistake here and a little mistake there. Yeah. You get even better Tamlyn Shimizu 00:24:15 And you know, this is the big difference actually I've seen. Um, so I've spoken to cities all across Europe, spoken to people from, you know, mayors to, um, uh, practitioners, um, anywhere along that spectrum. And it's one thing that I've noticed is the people that are, um, not afraid to fail are the ones that are actually getting stuff done. Um, and are taking that 80% and not saying everything has to be perfect cuz when you wait and you plan for so long, um, then you wait in planning and it changes already and you haven't done anything yet. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:24:52 Yes. When you are ready to start, there are no more bikes <laugh> so, so it's really important to say, let's start today. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:24:58 So, um, on the bike topic, cuz it's also a big, um, focus of mine personally is mobility too. So, um, what are your goals with mobility and uh, I guess where did you start and where are you going? Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:25:11 It's really, really difficult. Yeah. At my first week as a mayor, the, the, one of the other mayors, which is for bike cycling responsibility came and showed me the map for Rostock's bike routes for the next year's what is planned. And he said, when the doing this plan is gonna waste it 34 years, I said, Holga put that away. Nobody is allowed to hear that. They're gonna think that we're crazy. He came one week later and he said, plow, this is the plan. And it's gonna take 10 years. I said, Holga, that's not really, uh, correct. You know, in one week you'd take away 24 years. <laugh> I'll give you four Tamlyn Shimizu 00:25:52 <laugh> Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:25:52 And then that's a re again, this let's just do 80%, but let, let us do them now. Don't let us plan for years and more years and even more years because world changes. So you have to start. I was in another city and it told me, when you do a very successful planning of, uh, roads for, for bikes, mm-hmm <affirmative> you have one problem. There will be a lot of people going by bike. And then your, your, your bike road will be too small. So you have to plan with streets mm-hmm <affirmative> so, so that it can become a success and you don't have the next problem. Yeah. And I think that's interesting. And you hear a lot about cities now, going down with the allow, uh, kilometers, how far you, how fast you can drive Copenhagen now, a big discussion about it. And um, so I think we all know we have to change, but even though in Rostock every year more cars. Yeah. So it's really strange. We all say we, now we should change. And then we go by car. Yeah. And we have a, we have Straßenbahn. I don't know what they're called. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:27:00 Yeah. the S-Bahn. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:27:04 The railroad in the city, uh, we have, uh, ferries, we have, uh, buses where we have all of, a lot of, uh, good, uh, possibilities still. We have more cars. And so, yeah. I don't know how to get this mindset changed. Uh, maybe the situation that we have now where it's getting very expensive to buy gasoline and stuff could change a little. Yeah. Maybe, maybe, um, uh, when young people get, uh, older and keep going by bike, but I, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a coach for a handball team. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:27:42 <laugh> fun. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:27:43 And the girls, after 13, 14 years old, as they were very small, sometimes one came by bike. Nowadays nobody comes, mm it's. The parents bring them with cars. Yeah. You know, they come with cars to do sports. It's kind of funny. It's also kind of my responsibility because is as mayor I had not yet been able to make a hundred percent sure, uh, accurate, uh, BI cycle road. Mm-hmm <affirmative> so as long as you don't have that, you can't really expect the people to go by bike. I don't want my daughter to have an accident. Yeah, absolutely. I want her to be healthy. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:28:21 Yeah. You have to make it safe. You have to make it more efficient to go by Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:28:27 Prominent. Yeah. You need some stuff, which is cool. Like a small bridge or it's not nowadays not just safe as enough, not without barrier. Uh, um, Tamlyn Shimizu 00:28:38 Yeah. The barriers in between Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:28:40 Yeah. Yes. And no breaks or stuff like that. Yeah. You need a green alternative. You need a fast alternative and I think prominent, yeah. That that's kind of cool going over this bridge or Tamlyn Shimizu 00:28:50 It's a lifestyle. Right. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:28:52 So, so it's important that in your city, um, that it's very, you see a lot of cities now have, uh, strange, uh, bridges for bikes, like, and when they do the image movies, they're always those bike bridges or a bike parking house, or you need something special nowadays just on not only a road, that's also one of the things that we really need a lot more infrastructure. Where do I put my bike? When I get to my work? Where when I go shopping, don't really have those things solved yet. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:29:27 Yeah. And once you do, then it creates a culture around it, right? Yes. Where people want to bike together to work where they want to, it, it it's, it's the atmosphere like when you're in Copenhagen or you're in Amsterdam. Yes. Everyone else is biking. It makes you want to bike too. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:29:41 And the city is a lot cooler on a bike. Yeah. When I have guests in my city, I go by bike and Tamlyn Shimizu 00:29:46 Show them and it's faster. Right. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:29:47 Yeah. When it's also kind of bigger your city, when you show your city on a bike, it's because you go slow, they see the building, they see the old university a lot better by bike than by a car. And, uh, I think that's that's culture differently. Mm-hmm <affirmative> uh, and we are gonna have a lot more of that, but it's gonna, we have to be patient. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:30:08 Yeah, absolutely. I think it's also for me, I understand it too, because I'm originally from the us. Yes. And of course we have a very big car culture. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:30:16 I drove by bike in Charlotte city. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:30:19 Oh good. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:30:20 They, they, all of the car drivers were watching Tamlyn Shimizu 00:30:22 This. Guy's crazy. Who, what is he doing? What that it's, you're one of the few, you're one of the few though, and course, but Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:30:30 It was very special. And I think also the, the, the people who are very polite. Right. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:30:36 I hope good. Yeah. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:30:37 Distance and no. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:30:39 Uh, oh, wow. That's that's good. I'm glad to hear that. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:30:42 Yeah. Yeah. So, so I think that's, that's a good sign. That's a good start of, um, I don't know how it's in rest of us, but at Charlotte city, it was really nice people. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:30:51 Well, just don't do it in, in LA, but, um, <laugh> maybe it's a, what Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:30:56 What should I do in LA there should do in liner or something like that to be cool or, Tamlyn Shimizu 00:30:59 Yeah, I don't know. I'm not sure. It's um, LA is a tough one with, uh, transport. I remember. I, I really, my cuz I have family in LA area and it's um, it's always a tough one cuz I don't want to drive. Um, but it's really, really hard to get around if you don't drive. I Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:31:18 Understand. But I went to a lot of cities of this world and uh, for instance, I went to London and I thought, okay, in London, Tamlyn Shimizu 00:31:25 You have the tube and stuff too, Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:31:27 Right? Yes. And then you go there and there's a lot of people by bike because often we discuss in the cities, we don't have enough space. We have the cars, we have the walking people. Yeah. Well we don't have any space more for the bikes. No, that's not true. It's about how we do it. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:31:43 How yeah. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:31:44 Yes. And what, what do we do? What is possible? And then you see there's a lot of people in London with a bike. Yeah. There's a lot of people by walking because they take the submarines or no, not submarines sub water. What are they called? Tamlyn Shimizu 00:31:58 The tube. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:32:05 Yeah, the tube, the underground. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:32:06 The underground. No, it would be great if we just talk about some, um, submarine, transport, some underwater transport. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:32:12 I'm sure that's gonna come in big cities. Like, you know, also in <inaudible> they made a metro like, uh, the, U-Bahn, Tamlyn Shimizu 00:32:21 Underground. Yes Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:32:23 Mm-hmm <affirmative> and a few years. And uh, they go under the water and um, it's very, very fast. Yeah. It's a fast moving transportation. Uh, so I think that's, that's the future to have a lot of courage to try something. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:32:37 Yeah, yeah, yes, yeah. Have the courage to try something and that's a good, um, point to kind of end on, but I do always like to, you know, give you the opportunity, if you wanna to open the floor to you. If you have anything that you really want to put out there and talk about that you think, ah, they should know this and I didn't get the chance to talk about it. Now's the time would you like the floor? Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:32:58 I, I, I would just say that. I thought, I think you gave me a lot of floor and, and then the important thing is that everybody's open minded that we, uh, connect with each other. That if every, anyone wants to, uh, ask me a question they can put on LinkedIn, uh, send me a question or, uh, I'm, I'm curious. And I hope that a lot of other peoples are, are curious. Uh, so, so that's the, the important thing that, uh, we are all open minded. Yeah. And that we have a little fun about our lives. We only live once <laugh> and that's very important that we leave some footsteps, that stuff, what we do be a part of something bigger. Yeah. Change the world. Do you a part I'm I'm not the one changing the world, but I can do my part, Tamlyn Shimizu 00:33:41 Do your part. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:33:43 I don't always look at the other ones and say, you should do my part or they can do more. No, let do what you can do. Even if it's only a little thing. And it's also very important that we don't just, um, you know, if somebody says, I, I don't eat meat. Okay. Mm-hmm <affirmative> then don't say to him, but you drive a big car. Yes mm-hmm <affirmative> or maybe that's his fault. Yeah. But he has, it's better to have focus on the good stuff than on the bad stuff. And if, if you all learn a little about that, I think we can become a better world. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:34:14 Yeah. That's, that's wonderful to end it on. Um, but just so you know, you're not, you're not quite done with me yet. Okay. Um, but now we do a little fun segment. Oh, are you ready? Yes. Okay, perfect. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:34:26 So this is yes or no, Tamlyn Shimizu 00:34:27 <laugh> uh, it is this or that question: roll with the punches, answer this or that questions quickly and with your first instincts. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:34:42 Okay. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:34:42 Don't worry. Don't worry. It's it's quite an easy one. So I'll walk you through it. So, um, and then if you want to explain afterwards, we'll give you time at the end. Um, so you will get the chance. Um, so sea or mountains? So this is yes or 00:34:56 Mountains, Tamlyn Shimizu 00:34:57 Bicycles, or scooters? Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:34:59 Bicycles Tamlyn Shimizu 00:35:00 I knew that answer. <laugh> planning or implementing? Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:35:05 <laugh>. Okay. You're overthinking. I don't really understand it. So I would say neither, Tamlyn Shimizu 00:35:10 I think you would say implementing just from implementing, from what we spoke about earlier. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:35:13 Okay. I would definitely implementing. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:35:15 Okay. I gave you your answer. Sorry, but um, no that's good. Denmark or Germany. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:35:22 The Baltic Sea. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:35:23 <laugh>. That was an easy answer between Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:35:26 Both. No, I really, you know, you should love where you come from, but you should also love where you live. Yeah. Because that's my high Mo I don't know what the word is being home. Yes. The home is where you live. The home is where you are. I really love Rostock and, uh, they are so great citizens and it's a Smile City. It's a happy city. <laugh> but you know, when you're born in Copenhagen. You will also always love koha when I go to Copenhagen my, my heart laughs. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:35:55 And you can just take the ferry over, right? Yes, exactly. How long does it take? Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:35:59 Uh, one and a half, two hours and then one and a half hour by car. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:36:03 Okay. Nice. Nice. Yes. Wonderful. And then, um, so I have one last question for you. Yes. And it's the mandatory question. Um, because I ask it to every single guest. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:36:15 Seems like a very difficult question. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:36:16 No. It, it depends on your perspective. Um, and I think everyone's answer differs every single time and also mine changes every day, too. Um, and the question is what is a smart city to you? Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:36:30 Smart city is definitely a smile city. Mm-hmm <affirmative>, it's not about digitalization. It's about the it's about living together and being happy. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:36:42 Good, good answer. Brief, right. To the point. And I think you will really encompass that with everything you're doing with smile city. And, um, of course we will link that in the show notes, everything, uh, the page and everything. So you can find out more, um, what should people do if they want to you, you mentioned message you on LinkedIn. You're just inviting anyone to message you. All right. Be to be careful, what you wish for. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:37:05 It's not sure it will be a first-moment answer, but there will be an answer. Okay. Well, and it's on me personal that's that's the reason why sometimes it's three in the night, once. Oh. Maybe if it's in US, it's in the morning. I don't know. So it's at any time when I have a little spare time, I, I look up, uh, in social medias and I, I answer all of it myself. I write it all of myself. I think that's very important and I love it because, you know, it used to be like politicals. They only bring up some papers at the election. Yeah. And you can't talk to them. Yeah. And those social media is great because I can answer. Yeah. You can put in a question, but I can also put in a, a, a second question on you. <laugh> so, so that's really good. And I, I, I just, it's very important that you're not anonymous about it. Yeah. And you're serious. And then you get an answer. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:37:55 Yeah. Yeah. That's really nice. Um, and very much appreciated, I'm sure. By everyone in your city. And, um, I also really have to take the time to appreciate you for joining me today to talk to me in, uh, this beautiful city. Um, Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:38:11 It was a great pleasure and we really have a yeah. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:38:15 Nice view Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:38:15 And not only nice. It's, uh, amazing as you say in the US, Tamlyn Shimizu 00:38:19 I guess. Amazing. I notice also I say wonderful too much on the podcast. I need to, you know, widen my, um, vocabulary. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:38:27 I, I went to us and I thought, they always say, it's amazing. I thought, oh, this Tamlyn Shimizu 00:38:31 We're very enthusiastic. Yes. And Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:38:33 Then kind of normal, but it's, it's amazing. <laugh>, it's good to be in, in or what do you call it? Uh, I love that because that's kind of positive, you know? Yeah. That's really important. Like, Tamlyn Shimizu 00:38:45 And in Germany you just say not bad, right? Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:38:47 Yeah. It's okay. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:38:48 <laugh> quite okay. And in, in Denmark, what do you Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:38:51 Say? Oh, I think we are a little like the Germans. We, we are also, uh, it's okay. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:38:56 It's okay. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:38:57 <laugh> not that bad. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:38:58 <laugh> good. Um, yeah. So I also want to thank our listeners. Of course. Um, don't forget. You can always join bable-smartcities.eu to find out more about smart city projects, solutions and implementations. Um, so yeah. Thank you all so much for listening and we'll see you at the next stop on the journey to a better urban life. Claus Ruhe Madsen 00:39:18 Thank you. Tamlyn Shimizu 00:39:18 Thank you. Thank you all for listening. I'll see you at the next stop on the journey to a better urban life.

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