Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: The City, the BABA Podcast where we bring together top actors in the smart city arena, sparking dialogues and interactions around the stakeholders and themes most prevalent for today's citizens and tomorrow's generations.
[00:00:21] Speaker A: I am your host Tamlin Shimizu and I hope you will enjoy this episode and gain knowledge and connections to accelerate the change for a better urban life.
[00:00:31] Speaker B: Smart in the City is brought to you by Babel Smart Cities. We enable processes from research and strategy development to co creation and implementation. To learn more about us, please visit the Babel platform at Babel SmartCities EU.
[00:00:46] Speaker A: So welcome back to another episode of our mayoral series and today we are traveling to Wrocaw, Poland to explore how digital innovation is shaping the city's approach. Leadership, public services, urban resilience, more. So for that I have a really special guest with you today. His name is Jakob Mazur. He's the Deputy Mayor at the city of Roswell in Poland. So welcome Jakob.
[00:01:12] Speaker C: Hello everyone. It's so good to see you and.
[00:01:15] Speaker A: Hear you of course, so nice to have you on. I'm really excited to learn more about your city. It's one I don't know a ton about. So I'm, I'm really excited to dig in more and see really all, all of what you're doing there. But before we dig in deeper, I like to get started with a bit of a teaser question to get warmed up and for that I would like to ask you, imagine your city was a song, which genre would it be and why?
[00:01:48] Speaker C: There's always a tricky question, especially when you consider the city like ours with 1000 years history and very vibrant city future oriented at the same time with many, many histories at the background.
So I would say because I'm personally jazz lover, it would be jazz for sure. Very dynamic with improvisations with the historical guests that we have like Turner, like many, many jazz bands that are coming at least for last 60 years plus years because we have two international festivals for them. I've been attending them for last 30 years and seen Marsalis and Turner and Stanko and Moszer, many of Polish and international stars. And it is the spirit, spirit that reflects what is happening here in my city.
Full of changes, ready to be for newcomers and to accept whatever comes with those new technologies, with new sounds, with new people, I would say with this Slavic spirit nowadays.
But we used to be Czech, German, Bohemian, French even for a moment. So it is mixture, mixture but beautiful. And getting back to this Slavic spirit it would be. You know, one of our Piang is Jess Piang is very famous international Lek Mozj A couple of years ago he played the Chopin improvisation about this. So my favorite one would be the Mazurka d major opus 33rd if I would just put it in one song. But it's not. It's not. I mean it's too difficult question.
[00:03:51] Speaker A: It's a difficult question, but I think you summarize it very well. So jazz, but maybe with smart Slavic roots too.
Now I want to know a little bit more about you as a person.
Can you tell me a bit about your background, your journey into your current role as deputy mayor?
[00:04:08] Speaker C: Yeah. Several years ago, seven years exactly years ago I started this adventure of being deputy mayor with the first brand. I was invited by my friend and present mayor to be his deputy.
And since then I'm very busy man with no time, but very happy because experiencing lots of adventures, lots of people like you yourself. And I'm very happy to to be a part of co creation of my beloved city. I was born here, so it is always a privilege but also big adventure, big obligation at the same time and amazing joy to become a part of the history, current and future history of this city. But before that I used to be very free with the good income businessman working for several industries, startups, IPOs and this kind for myself. So definitely more time, more money, but I wouldn't be so satisfied and so universal busy as I am here today. So in both ways I'm very happy to be a part of my city not only as an authority, but also as inhabitant who has some impact and influence to co create the future of it.
[00:05:43] Speaker A: Yeah. On this series I've heard from a lot of mayors who have made this transition from private sector to really a rewarding experience, but also bringing bringing a lot of valuable experiences from private sector into their role as mayor, Deputy mayor. So it's really interesting for me to hear about that progression as well.
Can you tell me also a little bit more about your city?
Where is it for those who don't know what makes up really your kind of unique DNA?
[00:06:14] Speaker C: Yes, of course, as I mentioned, 1,000 years history, almost 1 million inhabitants because statistically we have 700,000. But we accept and welcome more than 200,000 Ukrainians who are co creating the city right now. Very successfully being fully integrated, 100,000 students.
So together is more or less 1 million inhabitants, very diversified, 130 nationalities. So it has changed a lot since last 30 years because it used to be monolite, all white, Catholic, you know, with mustache and people not so smiling as it is right now, and now it's vibrant, full of universities, full of culture, sport, full of smart solutions as well.
So we are very proud to represent the city that is also successful on a business path as we have no unemployment rate.
It is located in southwest Europe, third the biggest one, a very vibrant capital of the region that is about 3 million.
So as a capital of the region, we feel responsible for smaller municipalities surrounding us. Together we try to co create the smart metropolitan area.
Successful both in social and economical areas.
[00:07:52] Speaker A: Yeah, really interesting. Would love to visit sometime.
You've mentioned the smart solutions, obviously I want to dig into that. So you've talked a little bit about nanosatellites, AI based tools. Can you tell me more about these technologies and how you're using them and what impact they're having?
[00:08:11] Speaker C: Yes, sure, there are plenty of examples. And we are no different than other, not only European, but worldwide cities that are trying to provide some smart solutions AI tools as well.
You know, in our case we established more than 15 years ago the smart city bureau. So the office that was in charge of implementation or some smart at this time. Now I'm smiling because it's a history and we know that what was smart 10 years ago, it's not smart, it's archaic nowadays. But still we were pioneers and we were kind of avant garde in Poland for sure. And we had also city labs. So since then we tried to implement and test and pilotize many, many systems. Smart technological, systematic approach.
But now we are trying to change it into something very sufficient. I mean this is the efficiency that we are looking for. Not the testing, not sparks. And you know, not to show off only, but more or less to provide the better quality of our governance and quality of life for our inhabitant. And it is about the scale and the scope.
And you mentioned this nanosatellites. I'm very proud of this.
You know, I have picture in my mind. Do you know Despicable Me, the movie, the cartoon.
And you have mine, Minions. Minions, the yellow guys who are so, you know, in my city in Wroclaw was invented and produced partially the minions, like the satellite. We put them in space, they are working for three years and they are taking pictures of what is happening in area of wrocaw. And because of this, with the algorithm and self learning algorithms that are improving the quality of pictures, the quality of data that we are looking for, we improve the taxation so we have more tax of property. That is one of the most important impacts on, on our income base and budgeting.
But it Also helps us those minions who are sliding over our heads are taking pictures and analyze what is happening. So it's also.
It is also useful during the floods or some critical moments that we have.
And it's been like a couple of years working. So now we are trying to improve it and also export this kind of solutions to share with other municipalities, self governments to collect the exact data about our properties, our cities, some traffic. But another example of these minions we put one on our underground pipelines about water and sewage system.
And you know, typically the water is the crucial resource for every city. Especially nowadays that we are trying to be more and more resilient. And as we are growing with number of inhabitants, we need to be very careful about this. And normally the leakage is more than 20%.
So our goal was to improve the level of, you know, how to minimize. Minimalize the leakages that are happening every day. And it's lost of hector leaks every day normally. So we put these minions again in our pipes with cameras and microphones and also with AI algorithm to predict because it is easy to predict by voice and by the video come and by the pictures that they are making and taking to predict the possible leakages.
So then we reduce the leakage that is significant number. This is the benchmark for international companies by 8%.
So it is huge improvement, improvement. And because of this we are able to provide water for those newcomers. I mentioned the 200,000 Ukrainians who came only last year. So you can imagine the small city is coming to your city or the mid sized city and you have to provide all those solutions. And because of this we were very successful. It is also the successful story of the cameras that we have. So the minions that we put on the streets and try to measure traffic, but it's happening everywhere in the European countries. So it's not only the regular car traffic, public transportation, but also pedestrians, last mile connections, bicycles that are trying to be more and more important part of our communication system. So these are just the examples that helps us as authorities to improve to manage resources that we have. So the space, the traffic jams, water and all those issues that comes with the people that are living here. So improve quality of life obviously. And because of the scale significant and very measurable for us. Apart from that, we have thousands of histories connected to smart solutions, you know, indicators, IoTs and many, many more indicators that are. That have tried to provide some smart solutions. But I'm very pragmatic. That's why I believe and the biggest one, the big data and big Solutions that are providing the big change.
[00:14:41] Speaker A: Really interesting. I love your minion approach.
Also a great visualization that I have in my head.
You're also innovating from inside EE office, E department initiatives. What's your vision behind that and what have you seen as the result so far?
[00:14:59] Speaker C: Yeah, that's also a challenge and maybe a mistake that was made by many local authorities, not only in Poland, not only in Roswell, because for last 20 years, especially in Poland, after EU accession and foundings, that we gain directly to improvement of our governance and managing digitalization and this kind of areas.
So the mistake that was made is that we purchased and a lot of different unconnected systems from different companies.
And it's hard to believe nowadays that we have like 400 not correlated systems. They do not see each other, they are not working together. Some of them are archaic, having like 20 years provided by companies that do not exist anymore.
So this is the challenge that we all have. And I spoke to mayors in, in France, Germany, Austria, Scandinavia, and they are struggling with this the same in the same way. So our goal several years ago was to establish the E office E municipality, both on the back office. So how to collect and standardize data for ourselves.
Because it's legal framework that we need to follow and definitely we need to be alone with legal regulations.
So many of them, and mostly complicated and mostly not understandable even for us so professionals. But what we tried to do, and it might be the best solutions for many, many cities, especially those small one, is to establish standards. So together with Ministry of Digitalization, we wanted us as Wroclaw connected to some comparable cities in Poland, but not only to establish some standards and maybe to build a platform that would gather together all those efficient and let's say, basic procedures, administrative procedures that are done every day. For instance, the approval for construction in my building, we accept like 50 or 60,000 of those that are brought by people who are coming. Then we made a paper, five copies. Then we tried to send it somewhere. It doesn't make any sense. I mean, not in 21st century. And it's have the different path here in Wroclaw, in Warsaw. So in big cities it doesn't make any sense. So we try to standardize it or maybe to put it on the same level and even pay for that for this software and make it even partially on some automatic way, in order to improve our work and to be more efficient with the data, with the terms of approval, for instance. And this kind of solutions that our inhabitants are waiting for.
And we are still Working. So this is not a failure, but it takes so much more time than I expected at the beginning. But the dream scenario is to establish according with of course our investment, according to legal framework, the standardized platform that would be partially automatic and would be used by especially those small municipalities. They do not have solutions. Right. The staff to build such an expensive and demanding systems that we are using in and to make it like national program. You know, from perspective of mayors, we hate to be centralized.
We are independent every time. But this one is a huge and the brightest example for us to be under control. And it also bring the solution that might be beneficial for state governments, not to mention European Commission and the European Union itself. Because we do not have the data that we wish that we had. Especially facing the crisis and being a part of bigger statistics, bigger solutions that are needed to be provided. You can only imagine that now we have the new industrial deal coming from European Commission.
We have competitiveness deal. We have a act.
We have also a lot of money to be invest from recovery funds for digitalization.
But what I wish, what is my dream and also I believe this is very pragmatic approach is to have common platform for small and big ones from local and international, especially when we consider metropolitan approach. And we want to collect this competitiveness data that are ready to use for our scenarios to be more and more successful. So this is the biggest challenge. But on the other hand, we are in progress. So I believe that not only on Polish stage, not only because of Roswa, for example, we will try to deliver these solutions to be useful for many, many municipalities on the European stage.
[00:21:16] Speaker A: Yeah, I want to elaborate on this kind of standardization of data. You also mentioned to me previously about this public private mix. Can you elaborate a bit more on what's really creating the biggest challenge? What makes this process so complex?
[00:21:33] Speaker C: Yeah, data. It's all about the. The new goal that we have and we are using. We are at least trying to use. But the problem is that, you know, let me give you an example. As you know, we. We welcome a lot of people, newcomers from different countries, mostly because of Russian aggression to Ukraine. Coming from them, this is historical issue and cultural easiness to be accepted here. And we are very happy of that. But we never knew how many of Ukrainian people are exactly in my city. So we just predict that it might be around 200,000. At the peaking point we had 250. But I wish we had this standardized data that is trying to provide the exact number.
And maybe even for us it would be beneficial to have this information to help newcomers, especially at the initial moment of their approaching the wrocaw city. But not only.
So you can only imagine that we collect the data that we have from private sector because of GSM card and Ukrainian language.
It shouldn't be like this. We should have this data from state government because there are a lot of public information.
But instead of getting this data from Vojevoda ship, so from local representations of state government, we had only request both numbers. So it shouldn't be like this.
But we measure private data coming from mobile phones and this kind we measure by our water sewage company because average usage of motor is 3 square meters per month. So we know about how many people is coming. But you know, it's kind of prediction, it's kind of not exact data that we should have. And the same with some traffic. We have a lot of cameras on our street, we have a lot of visualization, more than 2,000. But whenever it comes for us to measure the traffic, we need to collect some additional numbers and statistics coming from private sectors. It's working, but it's not standardized. So I'm really suffering every time that Come on, it's so easy, it's so obvious. We should be united in collecting, aggregating, then processing the data, to use it openly together with the private and public sector to have it done, because we don't have it. So it's like patchwork of many systems, many platforms that we are using not to have it standardized. And I would say that in case of many prime ministers of presidents of countries, this is a headache that they have because they never know what is the exact and true number.
So it's high time for all of us to be more concrete about how to make it happen, to aggregate and process the data that are surrounding this. Of course private sectors want to have benefits coming from that. I don't blame them.
But I wish that both sides could be more open. And it is about standardized the source and then outcome of data that are collected in every city. Unfortunately it has different path and different way and sometimes it's not comparable and it's not useful because you need to co create or create another platform to summarize or maybe to analyze the data that is not exactly in the same standard. And it brings a lot of issues, a lot of waste of time and energy for all of us. I mean the companies that are operating here, new startups that are trying to build the new companies on that, and also for us as a public authorities who are obliged to provide the exact Numbers and exact solutions to the spot.
[00:26:28] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm hearing a similar challenge in so many cities today around the standardization of data and really the need for alignment between public and private sector. So definitely echo your your concern there.
You also mentioned that you're working a lot on information and crisis management right now. What does that look like really in practice? And what have you learned from accelerating the. The recent efforts?
[00:26:56] Speaker C: Yeah, you know, fortunately, or maybe this is the big meme misfortune for our times that we are in constant crisis. Crisis is coming one after another.
But the big one for sure for my city was Covid first and then Ukrainian migration, but maybe the Russian aggression.
So the cause of this, and I would say that I wish we had all these solutions before, but because of these crisis, we learned a lot. We also implemented some new tools from time to time in my city because it's a city full of rivers and islands, we have flood.
And the biggest example, maybe the best example that I could provide to you is like in analog time, 28 years ago, we have the big FL flood that covered 40% of my CTE. I remember, I remember this time. It was really dramatic.
You can watch the Netflix serial about this. It's not exactly the picture, but 1997 we had a flood. And since then we learned our lesson. And because of money we gained from World bank and many institutions after accession of European Union, we learn our lesson and we prepare the city also in a smart technological way. It's not only the big infrastructure investment that is essential, of course, in order to struggle with big water that can come every year. We don't know that. And because of climate change, heavy rains and these things are happening more often than we wish.
But in 28 years we prepared our city, our ecosystem technologically, but also with the education of our inhabitants that mostly still remember the big drama of the 1997.
And we also put a lot of indicators, a lot of technological measurements to be ready. And last year in September and October, we had a big flood, even bigger in 1997.
And we survived. The city was secured.
Of course, it took a lot of the involvement of thousands of inhabitants who were fighting on embankment with the sandbags. And you know, it's. It's another story for another book, let's say how it brings the unity and identity of your city together with those people. But what I'm trying, trying to say this crisis is for me excellent example how we can be efficient in bringing technology awareness and long term infrastructural solutions to be successful at the end. We know there's a lot to be improved after the last September, but we survived and we were pretty successful. It also refers to, let's say, local economy, local society, communities. After Covid, we needed to change a lot of things and of course to change our approach to measure economical growth or stability for those industries that suffer most.
And how to put it in the right way. But in fact is another example of success story because of our say, also involvement with all society and still stakeholders using the.
The newest technological platforms and the AI as well, because we have 1.7 unemployment rate in the city. In fact, it is minus. So after this, when you add to this, that we welcome 200,000 people from Ukraine that are working and still you have this minus rate.
It is kind of success story for us for now. Because we see that new challenges are coming. And not only climate change, as I mentioned, in next 20, 30, 50 years can be an issue for newcomers coming from Asia and Africa to Europe. And we are the Eastern gate, naturally, with our sources of water, food and soil. So it is natural. But also because of many, many issues that are coming with the, let's say, economical change of Europe and demographical change.
For us, we had this scenario, four of them, as we are shaping our strategy 2050, and only one of these scenario is positive.
So we try to be prepared for the, let's say, moderately bad scenarios. Because a lot of things is happening, not to mention in case of Poland, the energy transition and the gap that we have, because still Poland is relying on fossil fuels. That is not acceptable, not only for the Wroclaw as the city mission. So one of the 100 cities that are about to provide the best solutions for European cities and regions by 2030, but also for next generation. And I'm speaking as a father, as a inhabitant, as a real member of this local community who wants to improve the quality of our life, to be proud of this. And we have a lot of gaps. Energy demography, that is project not in Wrocaw, because we have a lot of newcomers, new people who want to establish but for the region, not only here in Poland, but in many, many nations and states, wonderful areas.
We are observing that it can be dramatic in this next generation that appears on. On a market.
So these are generous challenges that we have. But in Wroclaw we used to be very optimistic. So we are looking for solutions now more and more using AI predictions, solutions and the models that can be beneficial. And getting back to flats and demographics and migration.
I can only compare it with the Data and solutions that we have a couple years ago to what we have right now. And I can only imagine in half a year it will be splendid. More and more with every solution until they're disappearing.
So it's a. It's like, you know, the new revolution every year that we experience.
I'm very happy that we are ready to manage crisis with support coming from Smart Solution and especially with AI tools that we are trying to use.
What we are missing is the accessibility to exact regulation that would allow us to work together not only with our surroundings, but also with other cities in Europe. That could be really beneficial. But that's another story that we are working on with European Commission and the Commissionary Vice President Fito and of course Ulsua van der Leyen, that she visited us last September during the flood.
So many, many more stories about this.
[00:35:22] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, hope for the best, but really prepare for the worst.
Right? And it sounds like that's what you're doing.
You talked about many challenges already that you're facing, but maybe also I'm wondering, do you feel like that there are any tools that you're really missing from your toolbox to really accelerate the change that you're hoping for? I mean, many people point to funding, for example.
Is that the biggest challenge or missing component? What. What do you think?
[00:35:53] Speaker C: Yes, great question. Thank you for that. And it is, I would say, legal framework to have access to this funding that is already prepared to be accessible for the city, like Wroclaw. So, for instance, only from recovery fund that was 60 billion euro, but we cannot use it for the tool. And may I? I have mentioned previously so about creation, but the city of Rostov we could use, I don't know, the really small percentage of prominent of this amount to use the local ecosystem of ICT engineers and specialists to provide this solution. And together with Ministry of Finance and together with Ministry of Digitalization, under the leading part of Prime Minister, we would be very efficient in one year. I suppose it's not a rocket science. In fact, sometimes it is. It seems to be complicated, but it's not. So from that perspective, I wish we had the fast track for doing this. It is accessible money, but not a big amount. It's like really prominent from this recovery funds, even on Polish market. So you can imagine on European stage what is happening.
Such a waste of time and money.
I believe I said I'm speaking as a mayor, deputy mayor. So I know that this is the voice of my colleagues from many different cities. And from the other hand, it is the Access to let's say ownership of this solution. Because mostly companies, global companies are willing to support this. But it's like you know, the service that we need to pay annually and then we have a lot of changes. We've been through this scenario many, many times for last 20 years. And this time I wish we had accessibility to founding but with the legal framework. So the regulation that allowed us to co create the system, to implement it, to have it under the umbrella of the state government or European Commission even and to have the fast track, you know the. The nightmare of every municipality is procurement and then the old procedures.
Then we have like it takes years sometimes and then you have to have a lot of financial reports and no one but the local and public authorities are very delicate about this matter. So we are always correct, we are always very prepared in a proper way with this report. So we are even overlooking into taking care about this process then we should. So it takes a lot of time and we are not that bold.
We have not the courage to be more efficient and it's public sector unfortunately. So we are more and more bureaucratic instead of being more and more visionaries and solution delivers.
And it should come with some special fast track bill that it comes from European Commission and then from through state governments that allowed us to be bold to have this vision implementation together with local engineers. In Wroclaw we have pretty huge ICT systems and we used to have hackathons and those kind of up to date solutions that provided the small but beautiful solutions that are in use. I wish we had the national hackathon of many companies. It's like you know, being for domestic one being proud to provide the solution that is useful for many, many communities and inhabitants of our city. And I believe maybe I'm too idealistic, but it's high time we use this kind of ownership of inhabitants, of donations, of being mesanas or ambassadors of the good solutions.
Not to be over bureaucraticized and not to put too many papers and regulations on a simple things.
I know it takes a lot of efforts for parliament and the state government because this kind of act, legal act would change and impact a lot of other regulations like thousands of them. I know what I'm speaking because I'm a part of commission self and the state governmental commission that is trying to approve every change of this. And it takes months and years to change even simple things. But it is doable especially right now when we are trying to put competitiveness solution when we are trying to improve the quality of life.
And it should be I mean, who knows better than the local authorities what should be provided? We are not engineers. I'm not a coder.
I know nothing about this. But I know a lot of companies and people very talented, from our universities, from our companies that would be proud to be a part of this initiative.
[00:41:55] Speaker A: Absolutely. I liked what you said about the city as a solution deliverer. I'm not sure if I've heard it phrase that way before. And I like this imagery a lot.
So with that, you've already inspired us quite a lot. But we get to move on to our segment of the show which is called Inspiration. Inspire us, Inspire us just a little bit with a story, a quote or anything that has inspired you recently.
Do you have anything in mind to inspire us just a little bit?
[00:42:34] Speaker C: I wish I. I was smart enough to to put something original.
But I believe that there is one chance that we have, especially nowadays.
It's not about politics, it's not about the situations that we are experiencing. But something is happening in the world. Not only in Poland, not only in Wroclaw, but in the world.
And if we do know nothing about this, if we are not about to use our intellectual powers, our heritage coming from Europe, from our cities, from our local communities that are more and more international, living and co creating the wonderful Europe, we would be defeated by ourselves, but our laziness and by the thing that we are not not inventive, we are not innovative anymore.
But I still, and maybe even more see the spark of new hope of something that is coming.
We have wonderful cities in Europe. We have wonder. Wroclaw is living example of this.
We have wonderful people, very talented, with knowledge, with this delicacy and empathy that is coming to to us naturally. We have also this historical heritage that learned us a lot about bad and good things that can come.
And when you put it together, together with ambition of next generation, and maybe it's generation of my daughters who are entering now universities and are trying to co create or create the better world.
This is high time we use all we have.
Not to being selfish as we used to be, but being some part of smart, smart cities, smart communities, smart people, smart Europeans, to be kind of new generation that is looking forward, looking into future with a bright vision, with vision that unites us, that do not divide us and put us in separated areas with empathy, with understanding and acceptance for new changes that are coming. And we cannot stop these changes.
So for me, and I believe as optimistic person, that it will appear because of you, because of me, because of many, many people who Are trying to think with the courage, with the vision and that we are trying to be a part of new base for those who are entering the world. I mean, in my case, this is my kids for sure, with the vision and with intellectual capacity that is provided. And I'm very proud of my city that I'm meeting every day hundreds of very talented, bold visionaries that want to have its impact. So for me it's like, let's get to the work.
Let's use it what we have, because we have it, but sometimes we don't see it.
[00:46:40] Speaker A: Yeah, very good words. And speaking of smart cities, now we come to our final question. It's the question we ask every single guest that comes on the show. And it is to you, what is a smart city?
[00:46:56] Speaker C: The definition is tangible. Yeah, you know, 15 years ago it was like smart lighting, smart bench, very technical, Iot. And I remember when I visited the Taipei smart city and compare it to Barcelona smart city, it was different approach in Asia. Mostly it was about technology, about control, about some say impact. That is true technology.
Especially in Europe, in Munich as well, we experience a lot of different approach and it has changed. So like 10 years ago it used to be more technical and like 5 years ago it started to change about human centric, about inhabitant community centric and less about the technical solutions, more about soft powers and soft solutions.
So I believe that according to the words that I previously said about the missions that we have and momentum that we experience, the smart city is about smart people, is about the future oriented people who are able to use every resource and tools that is available on market, on, in domestic, on international and use it to improve quality of life, the secure future, resilience, independency, self sufficiency, but also to be prepared, a part of resilient history, to be prepared for crisis and changes.
Yeah, but you know, in, in this time, as we are speaking about smart city and technical solutions, in my office there is traditional clocks. So what you heard is the bell every half an hour. I don't know if you heard.
[00:49:06] Speaker A: I don't think I heard it, but yeah, I can imagine.
[00:49:08] Speaker C: Yeah, so. So I have this.
The mix of heritage and history made in the 18th century. The clock is very historical to the discussion about future and the AI solutions that we are using.
[00:49:22] Speaker A: Well, I would, I would argue that integrating heritage is a part of becoming a smart city as well. So very important point. So with that I just have to thank you so much for your time.
It was great having you on learning all about your city. Learning all about the different initiatives and also hearing your perspective on all of these topics. So thank you so much.
[00:49:43] Speaker C: Thank you. It was my pleasure and hopefully we will see each other in WROCAW very soon. Phil, everyone feel invited and let me know when and I will try to organize something very special to welcome you and to show not only the future, but also the history of this wonderful, splendid city.
[00:50:02] Speaker A: As Wroclaws would love to come. And I'm sure a lot of listeners are keen as well. And also thank you to all of our listeners of our of course, don't forget, you can always create a free account on Baba SmartCities EU. You can find out more about smart city projects, solutions and more. Thank you very much.
Thank you all for listening. I'll see you at the next stop.
[00:50:25] Speaker B: On the journey to a better urban life.
[00:50:36] Speaker C: Sam.
