Dublin Month #2 - Open Data: "The backbone of Smart City projects"

Episode 14 September 07, 2022 00:34:17
Dublin Month #2 - Open Data: "The backbone of Smart City projects"
Smart in the City – The BABLE Podcast
Dublin Month #2 - Open Data: "The backbone of Smart City projects"

Sep 07 2022 | 00:34:17

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Hosted By

Tamlyn Shimizu

Show Notes

In the second episode of our Smart Dublin mini-series, we spoke with Luke Binns, Smart Dublin Projects Coordinator, and Gabriel Byrne, Systems Analyst & Team Leader in the South Dublin County Council, about the world of open data and data ecosystems.

 

Overview of the episode:

02:43 - Teaser: What are things that people get usually wrong about open data?

04:37 - What are Luke and Gay working on specifically? What is Dublinked and how does it work?

08:30 - Is there a time when data shouldn't be open?

11:00 - What are the challenges when it comes to citizen engagement?

12:35 - All about Dublin Region's Climate Action Challenge

16:20 - Gay's passion project: Hale and Hearty

18:40 - What could be the negative consequences of open data?

20:15 - How do you keep data up to date?

26:51 - Shoutout: our guests mention a person, an organisation or a city they think deserves more recognition in the field

29:55 - Ending Question: To you, what is a Smart City?

 

Liked our show? Remember to rate it! Want to join us for an episode? Contact our host Tamlyn Shimizu.

And for more insights, join our Smart City Community!

 

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Episode Transcript

Gabriel Byrne    00:00:00    You know, I'm barely awake an hour, but already subconsciously or consciously I've check the weather. So people don't actually realize that they're a lot of the time that they're using app open data.   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:00:17    Welcome to Smart in the City, the BABLE Podcast. I am your host Tamlyn Shimizu. And really at BABLE, we aim to connect the players in the Smart City industry with high-quality information and ideas through our platform and services. This podcast is really an extension of this goal and mission to drive the change for a better urban life. Before we get started, I wanted to inform all of you lovely listeners about a great opportunity. BABLE has extended the deadline for the innovation market watch for 2023. So top smart city companies are invited to apply before the 30th of September and it's completely free. So just follow the link in the show notes. So today in our mini-series with Smart Dublin, we are diving into the world of open data and data ecosystems, looking at a unique case study called Dublin and the activities that surrounded as well as everything open data and the co-coordinated effort made by the Dublin local authorities to publish open data.   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:01:26    So, um, the best people I have to speak about this topic are with me today, luckily, um, and that is the smart Dublin projects coordinator, Luke Binns, who focuses on developing and promoting Smart Dublin's open data portal, AKA Dublin and regional data strategy. Hi Luke, how's it going today?  Luke Binns         Hello, Tamlyn. Very good. Thank you. And thanks for having us along.  Tamlyn Shimizu        Yeah, thanks so much for coming onto the podcast. Um, and also with us today is Gay Byrne who works for South Dublin County Council as a systems analyst and team leader, and is also currently responsible for a diverse portfolio, including GIS libraries management system and various internal digital signage projects. He is also an open data liaison officer responsible for all things open data related, um, in south Dublin county council, including ultimately open data, public publication. Hi, Gay. How nice to have you here. Gabriel Byrne    00:02:30    Good morning, Tamlin. Good to be here.   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:02:31    Yeah. Thank you both so much. Um, I'm really excited to dive into, uh, open data. It's, it's really such a trending hot topic today, and I know Dublin's doing a lot of interesting things with it. Um, so just to get us a little bit warmed up, uh, to start talking about it, um, I wonder if you both can mention one, uh, thing that most people get wrong about open data?   Luke Binns    00:02:59    Uh, hi. Hi there. <laugh>   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:03:02    Go ahead. Go ahead, Luke.   Luke Binns    00:03:04    I'll I'll take this. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So we work internally with, uh, service, uh, owners and service providers in the local authorities who might be housing. It might be planning, it might be environment. And we get this question quite a lot. What, what exactly is open data? So a absolutely we tell 'em that it's, um, it's, it's it's has to be in an open format, so it needs to be used and reused. So if you put it up as a, a PDF or some kind of format like this, uh, it, it it's its clothes and people can't deal with it. Um, so while, while they have provided the data, they have provided the information to the public, uh, and they have put it out there if you like. Um, it's not actually in a reusable format. So that that's something that we get is, um, but how do you actually make it so that people can use and reuse and play around with it? It's just, you need to get the format, right?   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:04:00    Yeah. Great answer. Gay. Do you have something to add in your experience?   Gabriel Byrne    00:04:05    Yeah, it'd be possibly similar insofar as it wouldn't be what people get wrong about open data. It might be just a lack of, um, of their current appreciation of what it might be. So it, that that's possibly what it is. It might be just a, a gap. Um, I think the concepts themselves are fairly easy to understand once people are informed about them. Um, so really, um, yeah, I would just say it's a, it's a, a gap in the, in the knowledge and it's up to us to, to promote that.   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:04:35    Yeah. Yeah. Good. Um, then we'll dive right into a bit more about, um, what you all are working on. So, uh, basically the four Dublin local authorities independently, and then strive to data incoordinated way and that's guidance, right?   Luke Binns    00:04:59    So the four Dublin local authorities, we would do work together. We have an ongoing working group, which comprises the, the open data liaison officers of each of the four Dublin local authorities, and then myself, uh, representing smart Dublin. We also have a representative from dairy links, which is, um, a company which provides, uh, technical and management services for the open data portal, both for us at regional level and also at national level. So, yeah, yeah, we do try to work in a coordinated way to identify, publish and update data sets across the four Dublin local authorities, because although we provide similar services and we do similar things, we all have very different systems and, um, data management and, uh, all different kind of processes and procedures that we have in place. So it can be a challenge, uh, getting it all, I suppose, uh, delivered in a harmonized way.   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:05:51    Yeah. Good. And so you work on Dublin, right. As you call it. Um, can you, you talk a bit more about the inspiration and thought process behind it, and can you explain a bit of how it works actually?   Luke Binns    00:06:03    Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, uh, Dublin predates my time with local authorities. Uh, it dates back actually 10 years, in fact, 11 years to 2011. Oh, wow. So it, it predates smart Dublin in fact, which it only dates back to, uh, 2015, 2016. So what it was was a, I suppose, a coming together of, um, uh, local authorities and also, uh, um, man university and also IBM at that stage, which wanted a branch into smart cities, uh, and, and opened data was seen as a big, I suppose, um, impetus and emphasis of the pro projects at the time, uh, because I suppose, uh, uh, most spot smart city projects have a huge data component, whether it's around air quality or smart mobility or smart energy management in buildings, uh, these are all I suppose, data based, um, uh, in initiatives, which are all all about, I suppose, um, collecting the evidence, collecting the data and then making smart decisions based on it. So that was the thinking at the beginning. Uh, then around 2016, it was, uh, revamped and relaunched. And instead of having the IBM, uh, I suppose, uh, technology behind it, it went with a more open, um, uh, a more open source kinda approach through, uh, the CCAN platform, which is a, I suppose, pretty standard fair now for open other platforms around the world is, uh, most of them are using the CCAN.   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:07:32    Yeah. Yeah. Cool. And Gay. Where do you come into play here? Um, how long have you been working in this, uh, arena? <laugh>   Gabriel Byrne    00:07:42    Yeah, I'm just thinking back. Um, I think probably since well, in the arena itself, in terms of data too many years, I would think that I'd be careful with list, but in terms of directly in terms of I open data, um, I, looking back, I think I was appointed as open data liaison office for south Dublin around 2017. Um, but that, uh, I think we would've been involved with publishing open data maybe for a couple of years before for that now as well. So it's been a good, a good few years, I suppose.   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:08:16    Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it has Luke just explained it's such a backbone of everything we do with a Smart City, so to say, um, so also with that, why do you think it, it's such a hot topic today and is there a time when data shouldn't be open? Um, maybe Gabe, maybe you want to answer this one? Um, yeah.   Gabriel Byrne    00:08:38    Yeah, sure. Um, well I suppose to answer the second part of your question first, um, we'd be pretty conscious or more than pretty conscious of our obligations in terms of data protection. Yeah. So, um, and that data protection legislation came in before, uh, open data, uh, legislation is such in air country. So it's something we are very conscious of as public servants in terms of, uh, how careful we need to be with personal data. Um, and I'd say it might come up, uh, again later in, in our chat. So yeah, for sure. We'd be conscious of, um, making sure that any data that we publish is open is suitable for, uh, open publication as such and doesn't contain any personal or se uh, commercially sensitive information. Yeah. Um, in terms of it being a hot topic, I suppose, as we mentioned earlier, you, it may be, it, it's something we need to make even a ho harder topic in terms of our, you know, our staff here and the, and the general public still, we've a good bit to do on, on that. Um, still, um, so, you know, if we look at our researchers and our, um, web developers, obviously very, very keen on open data and accessing, uh, data that they can use in that regard, but I still think we have a body of work to do, uh, with our own internal organizations and with the general public in terms of publicizing that message   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:10:12    So hot, but not hot enough, I suppose. Huh.   Gabriel Byrne    00:10:16    Yeah. Book getting there, getting there, getting there. I think maybe, uh, if I was to put my general public hat on, maybe people don't realize, um, day to day, uh, that they're using open data, you know, for instance, um, you know, I'm barely awaken hour, but already subconsciously or consciously I've checked the weather. And, um, uh, I did travel, uh, by car today, but it, uh, if I was traveling on public transport, I would certainly have, have checked times. So people don't actually realize that they're a lot of the time that they're using, uh, open data. Yeah. So yeah, one of the great hidden secrets, maybe we should be telling them that it's openable   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:10:59    Telling the world well now yeah. We're, we're helping to do that, you know, with this podcast and other means, but yeah. Um, maybe also, Luke, you have, um, how maybe this leads into another question about engaging with citizens. Um, so what ways are, is your work doing that? And what's kind of the biggest challenge as far as you're concerned?   Luke Binns    00:11:21    Yeah, yeah. AB absolutely Lin. So when we publish data as open data, there's, there's no logins that people do to access it. We have no way really of knowing, uh, who is using it and for what purposes. Uh, so we are in a bit of an information vacuum there. Uh, obviously we hear about things anecdotally and people reach out to us to ask for data sets to be perhaps updated, or if there's any issues or, or anything like that. Uh, but we do also run various engagement activities, uh, both internally and externally. Uh, so you know, things like events, uh, webinars, um, and, uh, at, at the moment we'll be running is a challenge. So it's a competition that everybody, um, can enter to, um, explain what they are doing or what they propose to do with open data through the course of the challenge. And then at the end of it it'll have a showcase and, uh, everybody will be able to have a chance to show, uh, the tools they build, the applications, they build, the app analysis they've done and so forth. We ran one of these challenges last year, uh, the active travel challenge. And by all accounts, it was very successful and we got some really good insights into how open data is being used from it.   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:12:36    Cool. And can you, I guess, speak a bit more about the challenge that's going on this year as well? What, what's the focus?   Luke Binns    00:12:44    Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, uh, the it's a very broad focus this year, so we've called it the active travel, sorry. That was last year. We've called it the, uh, climate action challenge. So each local authority in the Dublin region has a climate action plan. And each of those plans has a number of themes in it. So transport that is mentioned is one of them, another one is energy and buildings. Another one is nature and biodiversity and so forth. And people have sent in their ideas of, to what they, how they can apply open data to build, uh, tools analysis and applications and so forth around each of those themes. So we've had, um, 36 different applications and they're spread across the five themes from flooding to transport biodiversity in nature based solutions. Cetera.   Tamlyn Shimizu   00:13:32    Cool. And so we should stay tuned for that or what's the, yeah,   Luke Binns    00:13:37    Absolutely. So the process is at present, we are doing the short listing of those 36. We'll probably whittle that down to around seven or eight, that will actually take part in the challenge itself. Then there'll be a couple of months and then we'll do an evaluation at the end, and then there'll be a showcase and also awards for the top three. So we ran this last year and the top three. Uh, do I have a moment to tell you about the top three from last year or   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:14:01    Yeah, sure. Go ahead.   Luke Binns    00:14:02    Brilliant. Yeah. Yeah. So we ran this on active travel last year and, uh, the top three, well, the top one was, um, it was called my 15 minute city or where's the crack. And basically it's just an interactive map that you drop a pin on. And then, uh, it'll show you all the things you can see or do within a five, a 10 or a 15 minute walk or cycle from that point. So it uses these things called ISO it's an ISO map. And, uh, depending on the, the street layouts and so forth, it shows you how far you can get in <inaudible> time. And then using the, all the open data sets. It'll tell you all the things will museums. You can go to the parks, the gyms C cetera, that of space. And that was particularly important times. I of at hand, we had a couple more, uh, prize winners.   Luke Binns    00:14:54    The second one was called active travel to school. And that was more, I suppose, rather than being aimed at the public, it was more aimed at, um, city planners and so forth. And that was really showing them all the neighborhoods where people didn't actively travel to school. It also showed where the local schools were. And then if you zoom in, you could see why people weren't actively traveling to school. So very often they might be based in the states' housing and estates, which only had one entrance in and one entrance out. And it was very car oriented, but the planners were able to see that if they put in a little pedestrian entrance here, they put in a little, uh, crossing their well, then they can change that two kilometer drive to school into a 500 meter walk potentially. So that gave great insights to the, to, to the local authority planning teams.   Luke Binns    00:15:39    And then finally, uh, the, the third prize winner was, um, a site called Dublin bike parking.com. Now this was already in existence. It showed lots of places where you can park your bike around Dublin. Uh, but through the challenge, they managed to, um, update it with new data so that the, it, it was improved in terms of where you can park, but then they also put on the bike share company data. So you can look for real time bike, share availability in your neighborhood or at your place of work or wherever you are for the three bike share companies. Instead of going to each app individually, they'll be there on the one map.   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:16:14    Oh, wow. That's, that's awesome. All very useful, um, applications and yeah. Exciting things happening. Um, so again, maybe you can, I, I don't know if you have kind of a, a passion project or as something that you really, um, would like to talk about, uh, with us today.   Gabriel Byrne    00:16:32    Yeah, well, just, um, in preparation for, for, for this chat, we would've had a look at what data sets, uh, were being consumed that we were, we were publishing. And, um, I suppose those, we were pretty proud of the fact that we've done a lot of work in terms of our, uh, sports and recreational based data sets of which there'd be many in terms of football pitches, playing pitches, swimming pools, and then all the indoor facilities, various indoor halls and all their usages. So there's a hell of a lot of data there. And, um, it's possibly one of our, uh, top one or two in terms of public interest in it. And then arising from that, uh, there's a couple of, um, fairly sizable projects go going on. Luke may talk about, uh, one in particular later. So there's a project called ha and Hardy, and it's, um, being championed by one of our fellow local authorities here, uh, in Dublin, which is Fingal county council, uh, in conjunction with, uh, uh, that company that Luke mentioned earlier, earlier, dairy links.   Gabriel Byrne   00:17:43    And again, it's a, it's an app and it's a web, uh, site and it's a database base and it's, uh, allowing the public to, uh, basically see what recreational facilities are, are there. And it's allowing them to search on recreational type and distance from their home, et cetera, et cetera, and to make decisions about what they can, what they can do, uh, near, near our homes. And, uh, there's a very similar development going on with sport Ireland, just coincidentally, uh, and they are also using, uh, the, the same, uh, type of data, no surprise because it's sport related. So be pretty proud of the fact that, um, that, that those particular, uh, data sets are, are, are being, uh, harvested and unused, um, and being de deployed to the public as such   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:18:37    Exciting stuff. Um, yeah. So I, I guess Gay also, you talk about a lot of these benefits, um, of, you know, open data initiatives, like the ones you just spoke about, but I guess also my mind goes to, what do you think are, um, could be some negative consequences that we need to account for, or that we really have to watch out for?   Gabriel Byrne    00:18:59    I suppose we mentioned the, um, our concerns with, uh, general data protection earlier. So we, that that's kind of covered, but, uh, the main concern I would have would be, uh, data validity and keeping data up to date because there's no point in somebody using one of these apps, uh, and deciding they'd like to go and play a game of badminton in a certain hall that lives that's beside them to arrive, to find that hall closed, that it doesn't open until 3:00 PM. That data, uh, was captured maybe a year or two ago, and it's not up to date. And that's, that's a real challenge because, um, to keep data up to date, it requires it's a resource issue. And, um, there's no denying that that data is. So there's an known on us. If we're going to publish data as open that we try our best to keep it as, um, uh, current as it possibly can be. Um, and in an ideal world, all these things are captured in real time. Like the, you know, like the bus or the train that's coming down, literally down the tracks to you, but it's not always the case. Uh, and I be conscious of that, of that fact.   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:20:12    Yeah. Luke, do you have any tips for that? Um, how do you keep data up to date?   Luke Binns    00:20:18    Yeah, so, so, so working with our technical partners, we've, uh, developed, uh, quality assurance, valid data, uh, which, uh, I suppose helps with that. So we, that, that will do things like, um, we'll put in an update frequency and if the update frequency, for example, is yearly, it will tell you if you haven't updated within the year, it'll tell you if there's any links and other, uh, attributes or features about the quality of the data set. However, the real challenge, I suppose, is gay outlined. There is, is the resources, it's, it's a, it's a sourcing issue. It's, um, it's finding the right people. It's getting the data from them. And sometimes, uh, the, the data itself, it might have been collected as a, for example, a one-off survey or, or, or something like that. So then, you know, the, the whole data collection process, um, might need to be, uh, re engineered or restarted in order to get that update. So, um, yeah, yeah, yeah. It is a challenge. It will be a challenge going forward. Um, however, we also have obligations to, to do this, so it's important that we get it right.   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:21:26    Yeah. I think we also find the same challenge cuz we crowdsource a lot of our database, um, which, uh, Smart Dublin has contributed to quite a bit of our Use Case database on our platform. Um, and I think it's also a challenge cuz we always have to make sure it's up to date. We want to make sure that, you know, obviously if it's a project it's ongoing and you've learned new things, so we always want to make sure to add that as well. So we feel that pain also here at so, um, yeah. And then I would just ask you, um, I guess Luke, do you have anything that we didn't touch on that you would really like to speak about open the floor to you if you'd like?   Luke Binns    00:22:08    Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, sure. I, I suppose you spoke before about what's uh, what's the impetus at, at the moment, why is there more talk around open data? And I think part of it is the, the re-casting of the open data directive, which last year was transcribed into Irish law. And so there was a bit of, um, a bit of noise around there. We, we ourselves, we organized a webinar and internal webinar for the implications of this for local government and, and really what the, the directive and also the national strategy say is that, uh, data that is, uh, uh, information that we hold is public bodies should be open by the full and it should be open by design. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that means, instead of thinking about why should we publish this? We should more be thinking about why shouldn't we publish it.   Luke Binns    00:22:54    And as gay said that there might be many valid reasons, for example, um, uh, uh, you know, it might be personal data or there might be commercial considerations or, or whatever it is. But the important thing is we need to work hard to change that culture whereby people are thinking, why should I publish this? Uh, why should I open up and are feeling perhaps, um, uh, concerned or, um, uh, reticent about doing so to, to change that mindset really, to think, okay, by the full I should be publishing and, um, maybe, uh, think about unless there's good reasons not to unlock those reasons be   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:23:31    Yeah. Good, good point. Uh, Gay, same, same to you. Would you like to speak about something that we haven't spoken about already?   Gabriel Byrne    00:23:40    Um, yeah, that that's a, the point Luke make made is really valid. There is the open by default and, and by design. And I suppose I had a, a think about that and wondering how could we improve on that? And, um, you know, we, we have very, very good procurement, uh, people in all of our organizations and it might be as simple as a, you know, quick phone call and a chat and explain it to them that in an ideal world, if they could include in our procurement template documents, uh, some wording to, to cover cover off that because, um, as you can imagine, when a department needs a new computer system, they typically need it yesterday. And when we go out to procurement, the it's done very as rapidly as PO as possible. So, um, it will be, you know, an idea to just get the communication going internally to have, um, that, that type of thing covered off in your procurement.   Gabriel Byrne    00:24:42    Uh, so that a system would never arrive into a local authority, um, that didn't have those capabilities inbuilt and there's no grade overhead there. A as you know, in terms of what, what would additional onus that would put on a party development company. Um, and I suppose the other thing I, I probably refer to with their earlier would be just to continue to try and continue to, uh, educate our own, uh, staff internally to the benefits of it because, uh, without that operational matters will always take precedence, uh, in local authorities because we're generally under resourced and there's a lot of demands in local authorities and, you know, to be fair, open data would be, wouldn't be in the top three. And in fact it wouldn't be in the top five of a demand on any member of our staff here. So, um, if we can demonstrate the, um, the benefits to them and some of them are indirect in terms of, um, as we said, in terms of, you know, apps being developed or, you know, research being carried out, but some of the benefits would be direct in terms of, we have freedom of information, uh, legislation in, in Ireland, like I believe was probably, uh, you know, Europe-wide as well.   Gabriel Byrne    00:25:57    So that members of the public can, uh, write in and request information. Um, and there's a, a fair overhead of resource required, uh, internally here to answer those type of questions, if you can imagine. Um, but if data is published as open or otherwise, um, the, the requester can simply be referred to that data set as opposed to having to put through a, the full formal response. So we've examples of that here, where, uh, data's been published as open data and it's greatly re reduced the freedom of information, uh, burden on, uh, on the, our, our departments here. So that's a real benefit that that's easy, just easy to sell internally.   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:26:45    Yeah. Yeah. Good advice also to those listening. Um, and so with that, I will move on to our, uh, segment. And this is a segment called Shoutout. Shoutout, mention a person, an organization, or a city you think deserves more recognition in the field. Can either one of you think of someone to shout out?   Gabriel Byrne    00:27:14    I could certainly think of somebody who's, um, an old colleague of mine. His name is, uh, am no relation just in case you think we are the store name. It's his name is Dominic Byrne, and Dominic is, uh, works in, uh, laboring local authority, uh, in Dublin Fingal I mentioned him earlier and, um, Dominic would have, uh, longstanding interest, um, in open data. I think Fingal may have been the first local authority in the country to publish open data. Luke might contradict me, but I think I'm probably right on that. And Dominic, would've been a driving force, um, uh, in that, um, and I mentioned the ha Harty, uh, project earlier, so Dominic would get my shout-out.   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:28:00    Perfect. Luke.   Luke Binns    00:28:02    Hi Tamlyn. Yes. So, yeah, yeah. As I mentioned, we have this working group, which is the four Dublin local authorities, which Dominic Byrne is part of, uh, the who Gabriel just referenced there. And I suppose all the open data liaison officers as well, um, uh, are, are part of a working group, which was, uh, set up by the national open data initiative. And, um, I, I think that provides, uh, um, a good amount of structure for our work. So everything that we publish here at the region is harvested up to the national open data portal and everything that they publish there is harvested by the European open data portal. So in theory, you can compare planning applications or bike parking or, or whatever it is in one city in Europe with another, just go into the European open data portal and seeing all the information there.   Luke Binns    00:28:56    Uh, so I, I, I think I would, uh, give a shout out to the national open data, uh, unit because, uh, island is ranked second in Europe for open data maturity and, uh, a good reason for that. A good part of that is to do with the national open data strategy, the national open data portal and, and a bit of the shape and structure that they give to the rest of us, uh, working in open data. So I'll give my shout out to them. Uh, if I have to give a shout to company <laugh>, uh, for the work they do, and we do work quite closely with them too.   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:29:28    Okay. Yeah. Good, good. Who's number one out of curiosity?   Luke Binns    00:29:32    <laugh> oh, uh, now bear with me for a moment. I'll just, <laugh> ask my friend   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:29:37    Google. Google knows. Yeah,   Luke Binns    00:29:39    Yeah, yeah. So we were number one for a few years. Uh, then we dropped back a couple of places in 2020 to maybe a, a third or fourth. And now we're back up to second, but, uh, I'll just have to double-check whos first.   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:29:52    <laugh> no worries. Um, and, uh, so we, uh, now move on also to a little recurring question, um, and that's what we ask every single guest, and it's quite interesting to hear everyone's different perspectives on it. And the question is what is a Smart City? Um, Gay? Do you wanna go first while Luke does a little bit of Googling? Gabriel Byrne    00:30:15    Might need a, do a bit of go on this question. Um, yeah, look it, I suppose it's a, um, it's a, a city where the citizens are used to, uh, encourage to use technology to do things better or smarter. Um, I mean, there's all types of examples, uh, of, of possibilities there. Um, I, I I've sat in on many, many seminar. I've seen plenty of examples. Um, and I, I guess over the next few years, these tech, the technology will be just permeate. It'll be almost, we probably won't even recognize that it's, that it's happening. You know, so simple example I suppose, would be, we've got these big belly bins now that, uh, uh, you know, that there's a, a Chip's there that sends a message to, for when the bin becomes fault that it's collected. So we don't have problems with overflowing bins or seagulls and all of that. So, but there's so many, uh, there's so many different technologies there that are, that are there that we probably don't even know is on our streetscape now, you know?   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:31:25    Yeah. Yeah. Good. Um, Luke, did you find us the answer of who's number one?   Luke Binns    00:31:30    Oh my God. I'm, I'm looking at tables here. Numbers. I'm - just tell me who  Tamlyn Shimizu    00:31:41    That's alright we can, we can go back <laugh>   Luke Binns    00:31:44    Yeah. I, I can take your question about, uh, smart cities if you like now.   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:31:49    Yes, yes. Go ahead. Okay.   Luke Binns   00:31:51    Okay. So yeah, yeah, absolutely. As I, as I was mentioned, and we're very much concerned with data and open data, and we, uh, do see, um, open data and, and data more generally being at the heart of smart cities and, and at the heart really of, uh, dealing with, uh, the challenges that the cities face. So we saw this through Mo um, COVID for example, that the, the, the open data around COVID around where, what the R number was, where the outbreaks were, et cetera, et cetera, cetera, how big should we make the dis uh, the restrictions or how small, uh, was all based on the data and the analysis of epidemiologists? So when we look at our smart city problems and the challenge they face, uh, challenges, they address be it, uh, I suppose, uh, getting around the city in a sustainable way, climate action, um, dealing with waste, as, as Gabe mentioned there, um, we see a huge data component and it's about using that data to make well informed decisions, uh, that, uh, I suppose, uh, to take the, the, the long view into consideration. So, uh, absolutely I will put data at the heart of my, uh, definition of what smart city's about. And in fact, I would extend it to, to talk about smart and sustainable cities.   Tamlyn Shimizu    00:33:09    Yeah, absolutely. Um, I, I think data is such a, a key player in any kind of smart city, um, in use knowing when to use the data and how to apply it is, uh, I, I think you can't have a Smart City without it. So, um, and I think open data is becoming more and more of a hot topic. So I'm excited to see in the future also what Dublin is doing. Um, and so with that, I will thank you both for the incredible insights into what you both do. Um, it's really interesting work, uh, and to all of our listeners, don't forget, you can always create a free account on bable-smartcities.eu to find out more about smart city projects, solutions, implementations, and more. So thank you all. Thank you all for listening. I'll see you at the next stop on the journey to a better urban life. 

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