Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: The City the Baba Podcast where we bring together top actors in the smart city arena, sparking dialogues and interactions around the stakeholders and themes most prevalent for today's citizens and tomorrow's generations.
I am your host Tamlin Shimizu and.
[00:00:24] Speaker A: I hope you will enjoy this episode.
[00:00:25] Speaker B: And gain knowledge and connections to accelerate the change for a better urban life.
Smart in the City is brought to you by Babel Smart Cities. We enable processes from research and strategy development to co creation and implementation. To learn more about us, please visit the Babel platform at babel-smartcities eu.
[00:00:47] Speaker A: So welcome back to another episode everyone. We are continuing our exploration within the US on a variety of topics with key stakeholders. Today we are traveling to the state State of Washington, actually one of my personal favorite states, by the way, is located in the beautiful Pacific Northwest of the US and today we are talking about climate resilience, a very important topic. I'm really excited to introduce you to our guest today. Her name is Natalie Weiss, the Climate Resilience Coordinator for the City of Olympia in Washington. Welcome Natalie.
[00:01:21] Speaker C: Thanks. Thanks for having me.
[00:01:23] Speaker A: Absolutely. I'm really excited to dig into the topic. Before we do, I like to get us warmed up with a little bit of a teaser, a little bit of a light question. And I have actually a new question for you. I have some old ones that I use a lot.
I really wanted to come up with something new and fresh for you.
My question is if Olympia had a theme song playing in the background of its climate resilience journey, what would it be?
[00:01:51] Speaker C: Yeah, I.
This is funny question. I was thinking about this and was thinking it would be some kind of like sports pump up mix because it's just, it really feels like we're at least. The climate resilience journey is very much a team sport.
So I was thinking it would be something like, you know, eye of the tiger or something that's just ubiquitously.
Everyone gets pumped up to it. It gets you ready to go.
[00:02:21] Speaker A: We are the champions, hopefully.
[00:02:22] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. Something like that, where the team is getting ready, but also maybe coming back from a fall. Yeah, it seems to work in a lot of situations. Something along those lines. Okay, good.
[00:02:38] Speaker A: I'm excited now to dig into your team resilience journey.
But first I would really like to know more about you as a person person.
What's your background really? What led you into your role today?
[00:02:52] Speaker C: Yeah, so I'm actually originally from upstate New York, so the east coast of the us Fairly new to the west coast.
But yeah, I grew up on the East Coast. I always loved, you know, being outside and spending time with my family.
That always was a really big part of growing up. And as I've, you know, pursued different professional paths, it's always been really important to me to focus on, you know, the relationships that human ha. Humans have with nature and how we both connect with ourselves and with our families in these spaces.
So my background is I started in college, I studied math and biology, really focusing on, you know, what are the dynamics between more like the mathematical dynamics between different species and relationships between them.
And then slowly worked my way into environmental economics and looking at sea level rise damages and air quality policy.
And that was actually really an interesting way of looking at similar problems.
And from there have like moved.
I went to grad school for landscape architecture soon after. So that was a completely different way of approaching the problem. And I felt really comfortable more in the like design space and understanding how we can solve these like really systemic environmental and social problems through, you know, design thinking and different processes. And it was, it's been kind of a journey but I think a good, like there's been a strong through line I feel about just, you know, how do we interact with people and places and spaces that can really bolster the future. And I think in my role now as the Climate Resilience Coordinator, it's really focused on making sure that other people and the community of Olympia has consistent can sustain the relationships that they've created well into the future even as conditions are changing and primarily through spatial means.
Which is really interesting.
[00:05:13] Speaker A: Yeah, really interesting cross disciplinary background. I love that.
Can you now paint us a little bit of a picture about Olympia for those who don't know it or have heard of it before? Where is it? What makes it unique, its geography, community climate? Just give us a little background to work with.
[00:05:31] Speaker C: Yeah, totally. Olympia is a very interesting place.
So if you've never been to Pacific Northwest, there's the Sound, the Puget Sound. And Olympia is right at the tip. It's the southernmost point of the Puget Sound and is the capital of Washington. So it's a fairly small community. There's about 50,000 people, 55,000 people.
And it's very proud and somewhat quirky. We have a very large arts community.
We really value events, like community events and have a really strong community identity.
There's an outsized community of small businesses, there's lots of local small businesses and people are really fiercely committed and to nature and their connection to the surroundings. You know, we can see Mount Rainier from Olympia and we're Very right in between the Cascade Mountains and the Olympic Peninsula and views of the coastline. And it's really just a gorgeous place and there's really strong connections across all community members to the outdoors, whether it's the views or activities.
Yeah. And the climate is fairly temperate. People see Olympia as somewhat of a climate refuge.
You know, we, it's been cool. We don't get snow, there's lots of, you know, nice rain, but not too much. And it's been, it's a fairly like, mild temperate place.
That's not necessarily going to stay true through the future. But the community is small and tight knit and I think by being the capital, there's a lot of connection to the public sector. There's also, you know, a military base nearby and people are really committed to the community and, you know, know, serving the community as well.
[00:07:29] Speaker A: Are you converted now from east coast to west coast then?
[00:07:33] Speaker C: Oh, are you? Like, you don't want to put me on record for that.
[00:07:38] Speaker A: I, I've always been like really west coast because I was born in California and the first years of my life, west coast, but I've actually been being more and more converted to east coast as well. So I really see the debate.
[00:07:50] Speaker C: Yeah, there's, there's definitely people who come out to the west coast and they're like, I will never return. And I feel, I feel a connection to both now, let's say. I like that.
[00:08:01] Speaker A: That's good. I won't make, I won't press you for an answer.
[00:08:03] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
[00:08:07] Speaker A: I also want to paint us this picture. I guess when you're looking at climate, there's kind of two pathways. We'll probably fall somewhere in between. But basically you see like best case scenario for Olympia and then worst case scenario for olympia in like 50 years. What do those look like?
[00:08:25] Speaker C: Yeah, it's hard. The, the best case scenario, it's hard because I feel like these things are very incremental. Like they can incrementally accumulate to being a good thing or they can incrementally accumulate to being a less than ideal outcome. But I guess for the sake of the conversation, I think the best case scenario is, you know, the community stays stable and looks similar to, and people can maintain the same relationships that they've had into the future. So, you know, older people are safe and secure in their homes, they have air conditioning, they're able to withstand and know the resources that they need to kind of, you know, withstand future climate conditions.
We have a housing crisis in Olympia, so, you know, having more people with safe and secure affordable housing and not feeling like they're driven out to other areas.
All of these things would be the best case scenario. There's also, you know, the opportunity with climate resilience, which we can maybe talk about later, that, you know, there's. It's not just a matter of staying stable, but also, you know, improving upon the lives of the people that we're working for. This is, you know, having more access to public transit. Transit and not having to, you know, get in your car to go to the grocery store and to be more connected to your neighbors. Having more community events, having new infrastructure that, you know, suits the city better, new parks and places together, all of that I think would be in the best case scenario.
And I try not to think about the worst case scenario, even though that's part of my job. Yeah, yeah. I think worst case scenario is the resources don't get put in place to really help the most vulnerable people that we know are going to be most impacted by the future climate conditions that we're expecting.
Extreme heat and wildfire smoke. They, you know, have an outsized influence on people with pre existing conditions or don't have access to shelter. And we know those are going to become more frequent and reoccurring. So the worst case scenario really is large public health crises and you know, displacement from these recurring events that people can't recover from.
[00:11:04] Speaker A: Yeah, on that bright note. No, but you so talking a little bit more about that as well because you recently completed a climate risk and vulnerability vulnerability assessment.
What were kind of some of those eye opening findings for you?
[00:11:23] Speaker C: Yeah, I think actually one of the most eye opening things for me was that so the Puget Sound area is one of the, the least air conditioned areas in the country. So there's actually.
Yeah, so many people just don't have air conditioning in their homes. Which both like adds to the perception that we're totally immune to climate change because, you know, it's a very temperate climate, we don't even need air conditioning.
And that while the extreme heat that's on coming into Olympia is not necessarily to the scale of, you know, Phoenix, Arizona, it's not going to become a desert.
People are not used to that. So there's a lot of vulnerability just around one of the main vulnerabilities that can be shown through these like climate risk assessments really is just level of awareness. So where your biggest blind spots are where you're most vulnerable. So a lot of people don't see extreme heat as being an issue in the Pacific Northwest. And the lack of infrastructure around some of this cooling and you know, old windows and ventilation and all these things like that was, it was a surprising to me because it's like it doesn't actually get so, so hot, but because we're less prepared for that, it's one of our bigger vulnerabilities. So that was, that was a new finding for me and was somewhat eye opening.
[00:13:00] Speaker A: Air conditioning is such an interesting debated topic here in Europe. I mean we don't air condition nearly as much as in the US Although there are countries like Spain that always have a lot of air conditioning because they're really used to it. But here in Germany we're also kind of encountering, I feel the same issue that historically we've never really needed air conditioning. Now we're getting hotter and hotter summers where I feel like it's, it's really becoming more and more necessary. So how do we adapt and how do we change this? But still doing it in a climate friendly way. Right?
[00:13:34] Speaker C: So yeah, totally. I, that's actually interesting. I'd love to hear more about, you know, how Europe is going about that issue because it is, I don't think they've solved it yet, but yeah, yeah, I mean, and with the wildfire smoke, I think like back to the worst case scenario, it's like people open their windows on a hot day to cool off and if it's smoky outside, these kind of cascading compounding effects like it might not happen this year, it might not happen the next five years, but as things become more frequent, just the probability of them occurring over each other is going to get higher. And how do we deal with not just one of the hazards but these kind of like multi hazard.
[00:14:17] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely.
So one of the hazards and risks that you also have is sea level rise. Right.
And this can be a risk for your downtown actually as well. So I would love to hear more about any of your mitigation strategies that you're pursuing to protect that critical infrastructure.
[00:14:35] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, we, I focus on the heat for the climate risk and vulnerability assessment. Just because you know, sea level rise is talked about a lot in the community and has, has for a while. But yeah, sea level rises certainly an issue.
The Olympia in terms of geography is split like east and west with the Puget Sound and Capitol Lake, which is this man made damned lake that's getting restored into an estuary that kind of like splits that section. And then there's peninsula in the middle here which is downtown where there's a ton of local businesses. It's really the like cultural and arts hub of the community as well as the central wastewater treatment plant is located there and the port, which is like a big commerce area.
Yeah. So sea level rise, we're expecting, our most likely predictions are to have around 1 foot of sea level rise by 2050. So that's really, I think the statistic is something like our 100 year flood will happen every other year over topping the shoreline by 2050. So it really just puts some of this wastewater treatment infrastructure at risk. It can lead to delays and detours of the downtown and potentially impact local businesses. And some of the things that we're really focusing on is we have a sea level rise collaborative with the Clean Water or lock, Clean Water alliance, which is the wastewater treatment plant as well as the Port of Olympia. And we're really working together as a team of partners to create, you know, water type barriers around this, around the downtown so we can better prepare for what this future might hold.
And in terms of. Oh yeah, sorry, you can go.
[00:16:29] Speaker A: No, no, I was just going to say that it might be really interesting also to connect you with some of talking about this European connections and learning from each other. The Netherlands is dealing with a lot.
[00:16:40] Speaker C: Of these as well. I don't know, they are far and away from what we're doing.
[00:16:45] Speaker A: But yeah, they're getting quite advanced with a lot of their mitigation techniques for the sea level rise because I mean it's a necessity and they've known this for a while. Right. And I just wanted to ask you, I gu. There's this, for some issues there's this sense of urgency. Right. To act. People recognize it as more of an issue.
But we also have long term strategic planning to balance with that. So how do you, how do you balance these. This long term strategic and urgency?
[00:17:16] Speaker C: Yeah, it's. It honestly is somewhat dependent on the hazards. So since we were talking about sea level rise, we can start there. But you know there's long term planning, we're talking about 2050, but then beyond 2050 there's 2100 and you know that's 75 years from now. And yeah, so you know that's really, really long term planning. But there's things that were long term planning for the physical infrastructure that needs to be in place to mitigate these risks. But there's things we're doing now that will help make that transition easier and just kind of like smooth, I think. Yeah, smooth the transition for people to start to change their perception of what our reality is. So part of that is you know, we've started experiencing really high king tides.
In December of 2022, we experienced one of the highest tides on record, which overtopped the shoreline and there was, you know, minimal damage. But at the same time the main connections between town, the east and west sides, were detoured and closed for some short period of time. And you know, just pointing to that event and being like this, this type of flooding will start happening more frequently. It's nothing to be particularly afraid of. But this is also new and we need to. These are what these long term plans are preparing for.
So using some of these nearer term actions or these, this amount of like urgency to act as a way to smooth the pathway towards longer term action and really bringing that, starting to shift that perception of what reality will be. Because you know, as I was mentioning before, these things are really incremental. There's a lot of, I feel like there's this mindset for people that climate change is just going to happen at one time, it's just going to happen. But these things are very, it's fast on a geological scale, but we experience them slowly and incrementally over time. And there's lots of time there to shape how we perceive them and what actions could be taken.
[00:19:34] Speaker A: But that's the problem, right, in trying to communicate this urgency because these are so incremental. Like if it happens all at once we have a disaster, then people tend to react to it. It's almost like something really bad has to happen before people actually realize and act.
So how do we get, how do we get more people on board without something horrible?
[00:19:59] Speaker C: You know, that is like, that is the catch 22. It's like to do resilience successfully, you are not experiencing these impacts.
You never would want a disaster to happen. And I think the sea level rise is somewhat of a, I don't want to say good, but it's an interesting case because we know that it will happen slowly over time. It is, at least in Olympia, more focused on tidal flooding. So it's really predictable. We know the tides, we know generally if they'll be high or not, just based on the conditions. We can prepare people for it and we know they're going to recede. So even if it overtops the shoreline, it will recede within the next sub amount of hours. And we can communicate those predictable actions and occurrences fairly well, I think.
[00:20:56] Speaker A: Yeah, makes sense. You're also doing different approaches to reducing greenhouse gas emissions. You mentioned things programs like group purchasing for heat pumps and energy efficiency initiatives. Can you talk First, a little bit about what that is and what your, the outcomes of it are.
[00:21:13] Speaker C: Yeah, totally. So we have a program that's called Energized Thurston. It was originally called Energize Olympia. It was a city run program that essentially negotiated better deals for people to buy heat pumps and install them in their house. And for people with lower income, they would get fully subsidized heat pumps. And you know, there's a full purchase program, but you would still get a discounted rate because you're part of this group deal.
And yeah, the goal here is really to get more energy efficient heating and cooling into people's homes. We also know that there is greenhouse gas that reduction benefits, but it also really makes people more comfortable. We were talking a bit about, you know, the cooling and it's amazing when these solutions can be both reducing greenhouse gas emissions and increasing climate resilience.
So it's been a really interesting program that has gotten a lot of, that has been really successful. And after the first, I think after the second year it expanded across the whole county. So people, you know, we have a small, small community in Olympia, but we're part of this like larger region and people in other municipalities were interested in what kept trying to get into the program and it really showed, you know, how even our small programs can start to scale up. If you do them and pilot them and they're successful, then those solutions kind of speak for themselves and more people get on board. Even if we're working at a small local level.
[00:23:00] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. I love hearing those stories of things that actually were able to be scaled up effectively.
What lessons do you think that other municipalities might be able to learn from that?
[00:23:12] Speaker C: I think the biggest thing about what other municipalities can really learn is just that the biggest, or not the biggest, but the biggest challenge for, you know, creating these programs is figuring out the nuts and bolts and the logistics of these programs. It's like, where do you find the funding and how do you set up the program for it to be equitable and actually do what you need it to do and to implement it quickly and effectively and to the people that you're trying to serve? So scaling up is, I don't want to say the easier part, but it's. There's less things to figure out. I guess there's.
You've already come up with the foundation, so, you know, doing the work on the front end to figure out the program is, is something to learn and you know, it takes, it takes work. But I wonder if there's ways that these more like regional approaches. It's like, hey, why don't you try this one? Why don't we try this one and maybe we can compare lessons and eventually scale up across the region so it's not just every single community duplicating their efforts.
[00:24:32] Speaker A: Yeah, thanks for sharing.
So there's a lot of challenges going on in the US Right now and many critics also of work against climate resiliency.
So how are you really justifying the investment into long term climate adaption today in such a political environment, let's say?
[00:24:56] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, so the investment as we've been talking about is not just climate resilience. You know, we're not out there as the climate resilience coordinator trying to get people on board with investing in climate adaptation.
The real message is to invest in, you know, public health and invest in secure housing and invest in smoother and safer roads. So these investments, while they seem long term and, you know, decades away, they really do have immediate benefits for people and their quality of life.
So, you know, there's statistics about every dollar spent on disaster preparedness has $13 in return. Like there is, there is strong evidence that the work that we're doing is not just for long term investment, but is really a current investment for the community.
And I think the main challenge that us cities face in, in this political climate is how much of this work has been branded as climate work, where we feel that what we're doing is much more connected to current quality of life in our communities and the economic development of our communities.
And that getting funding, insecure funding and uncertain funding is really throwing a wrench in some of these programs that have more immediate.
[00:26:37] Speaker A: Yeah, you really touched on something that I've been preaching a lot because there's a lot of certain language that we use within the EU circles of climate and mobility and things along those lines that I feel like are not very adaptive to the current polarization of where we're at politically. And so I really love your approach of saying, hey, this is for better quality of life. This is for public health. This, these are for, you know, just the community and growing.
So I really, really love what you said there. That's something that really resonated with me.
[00:27:14] Speaker C: It's something I just have found just from talking with, you know, community members. It's just, it's really hard for people to put themselves in the shoes of 25 years, 50 years, especially like local businesses. It's like, you know, I'm just thinking about the next five years. If that and, you know, having it connect back to people's current situations and what matters to them is really, is really the winning formula for us.
[00:27:43] Speaker A: Completely agree.
So with all of this being said, what do you think are really your bottlenecks, your main challenges that's stopping you from accelerating the change that you want to make and what tools are missing maybe from your toolbox?
[00:28:01] Speaker C: Yeah, we as a city are going through our comprehensive planning process right now, which is a law in Washington that requires us to do 20 year strategic plans. So we're in the process right now of really doing that visioning of what it needs, what it means for us to move forward in climb adaptation over the next 20 years. And after that, it's really just funding as the bottleneck. We know what we need to do, we know we have a sense of what could work. But you know, getting the funding to do that is a different story. And it really is like we can do, we can do some work with the funding that we currently have, but we could do more work with more funding. And that is, that is the bottleneck.
I know there's some cities that have dedicated climate funds that are self sustaining and they can do put their programs as, as they have planned, but we're. The city of Olympia isn't exactly in.
[00:29:10] Speaker A: That place just yet. Makes a lot of sense. That's a common answer that I get also. So, yes, bottlenecks and many challenges ahead of us, but I'm, I'm very confident that you guys are gonna figure out a way forward. So.
[00:29:26] Speaker C: Yeah. However, I will add that going back to the team, the theme song of the team, it's, we're really focused on collaborating and coordinating with other departments in the city because, you know, there's other people who are interested in public health and transportation, all of this. So working with them to make sure that their programs have a dimension of climate resilience or climate mitigation is how we're trying to embed our work and make sure that it gets, continues to move forward regardless of what the funding landscape looks like.
[00:30:06] Speaker A: Understandable. And really love the focus on trying to go across the governmental silos.
Very important in climate work.
I want to ask you now, I want to give you the open floor if there's anything that we missed in the conversation that you think would be really important for the listeners to know about.
Did we miss anything?
[00:30:28] Speaker C: I don't think so.
I think, I guess one thing that I always try to add for these climate adaptation conversations is there quickly becomes a large focus on infrastructure how we're going to harden it, how we're going to build it, how we're going to retrofit it and people find that to be, you know, that's, that's not my problem, that's the government's problem, which is true. But there's lots of things that we can do to be, you know, better citizens of our community and, you know, we can be climate adaptive in our own ways as individuals, not just looking, looking at the government. And I think some of the biggest solutions that we found is just getting to know your neighbors and understanding their needs and checking in on them and talking about the heat situation and the upcoming summer. It's like, what can I do to help? And you know, if you have someone, you know that's on medical equipment, you know, give them a call if it gets above 90 degrees. And there's lots of more human individual actions that we can all do that will build resilience amongst our smaller network of relationships rather than just, you know, this is in someone else's hands.
[00:31:59] Speaker A: Yeah, I love the individual human approach.
So with that, I would love to move to our fun segment. And it's a segment that I chose for you today is called Hot take of the Day.
[00:32:15] Speaker B: Hot take of the Day.
We want to hear an opinion of yours that may be slightly controversial or debated.
[00:32:30] Speaker A: Do you have a hot take for us today?
[00:32:31] Speaker C: I have lots of hot takes, none of which are really related to climate resilience, but I'm just gonna. Yeah, I would say I was recently on a plane and I really feel that whether or not the window should be opened on a plane should be a rose decision, not just the person sitting at the window.
I feel like I love it.
That might be controversial, but that is my take of the day.
Yeah.
[00:33:12] Speaker A: I like it because I've recently been woken up by someone opening the window shade. So I agree with your hot take.
[00:33:19] Speaker C: Okay, wait, so we're, we're on opposite parts of this. I think the windows.
[00:33:23] Speaker B: Oh, it should always be open.
[00:33:24] Speaker A: Okay, that's, that's fine. I just don't like it when it's closed and then it's open while you're sleeping because then that wakes you up.
[00:33:32] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:33:32] Speaker A: Okay, so we're like kind of on the same page.
[00:33:34] Speaker C: But we're like, it could kind of on the same page.
It depends on how long the flight is. Mostly because flying into Pacific Northwest is so beautiful and I feel like you have to look out the window to see all the beautiful mountains and people just, you know, stay on their phones and close their window. And I'm like, but this is a public good. This window is for everyone.
[00:33:56] Speaker A: It depends on how long of a flight you're on, right?
[00:34:00] Speaker C: Yes. Yes. Yeah.
[00:34:01] Speaker A: Good. Do you have more hot takes that you want to share?
That was good.
[00:34:06] Speaker C: I.
I have. Again, not related to climate resilience, but you. Have you been to, like, Seattle area? Because there's. Have you had a Seattle hot.
[00:34:18] Speaker A: I have not, I don't think. Maybe when I was younger.
[00:34:22] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:34:22] Speaker A: I don't know.
[00:34:25] Speaker C: I'm also on. I'm on a tirade about this, but there's.
Yeah, there. The Seattle hot dog has cream cheese and grilled onions on it. And it sounds gross and crazy, but it's actually so good. And it. I feel like everyone in Seattle area knows that they're good, but outside of the area, they might not and think it's kind of debated.
But you try it once and you're fully.
[00:34:53] Speaker A: I can see how that would be good.
[00:34:54] Speaker C: So I feel strongly about that.
[00:34:58] Speaker A: No, really, really interesting hot takes. I love it.
With that, I have to bring us to our final question.
It's been a lot of fun with you, but unfortunately it has to come to an end sometime.
And the last question I have for you is the recurring question is a question we ask every single guest that comes onto the show and is to you, what is a smart city?
[00:35:23] Speaker C: Yeah, but I really think that a smart city is one that anticipates the needs of the people that are using the services, moving around the city and designs for those needs.
I feel like we've all had an experience where we're moving around somewhere. Like, I was riding my bike and had to go down the stairs, and it was the first time that I saw one of those bike wells on the side near the handle railing. And it's just like, oh, this is made for me. And, like, I would never have thought to do this or, like, didn't know that this could be an option. And then all of a sudden, my life just got easier.
[00:36:07] Speaker A: And.
[00:36:08] Speaker C: And I feel like those little details of cities and urban design really can enhance the experiences that people have. And it just. It feels smart. It's not easy, very technologically advanced or any of these things, but you're going through your life and you're like, I just had it made easy. Yeah. And then the second part of the smart city, I feel is just having things be more multifunctional.
Similar to the bike. Well, it's like, it's a stair, but it also is a transportation of A of a bike and, you know, our public spaces, there's lots of time in the day and time in the year really to have things transition into different uses. And as we in the us, as we try to make things more dense, we really need to be thinking more smartly about how functions can layer on top of each other. And, you know, this park isn't just for baseball or it's not just for this street is not just for cars, but it can also be a place to eat and hang out with your friends and ride a bike and maybe ride a scooter and just, you know, there's so many more options. To use our public space in a way that suits more needs is what I think is a smart design and a smart place to be.
[00:37:28] Speaker A: I love those answers. So anticipation of needs instead of just reacting, I guess, afterwards to different things that happen and then this multifunctional use of spaces and how the place interacts with the people.
I really love that answer. So with that, I have to just thank you for taking the time to come and talk to me about everything you're working on. It's really inspiring to hear about Olympia or all of what you're doing. And so thank you very much.
[00:37:58] Speaker C: Yeah, thank you so much. This was really fun.
[00:38:00] Speaker A: And thank you, of course, to all of our listeners. Don't forget, you can always create a free account on Baba SmartCities EU. You can find out more about projects, solutions, implementations and more. Thank you very much.
[00:38:16] Speaker B: Thank you all for listening. I'll see you at the next stop on the journey to a better urban life.
[00:38:21] Speaker C: It.
