Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:07] Speaker B: The City, the Baba Podcast where we bring together top actors in the smart city arena, sparking dialogues and interactions around the stakeholders and themes most prevalent for today's citizens and tomorrow's generations.
[00:00:21] Speaker A: I am your host Tamlin Shimizu and I hope you will enjoy this episode and gain knowledge and connections to accelerate the change for a better urban life.
[00:00:31] Speaker B: Smart in the City is brought to you by Babel Smart Cities. We enable processes from research and strategy development to co creation and implementation. To learn more about us, please visit the Babel platform at babel-smartcities eu so.
[00:00:45] Speaker A: Welcome back to another episode and a new episode of our Mayor's Mic series. We're going to travel to France to just the east of Paris, to Neuilly sur Marne, a municipality of just under 40,000 residents that's not only hosted Olympic athletes in 2020, but has also inspired cities across France through its creative public initiatives. Well, are you intrigued? Well, stick around for the guest then.
Joining us today is none other than Zartosh de Bakhtiari. He's the mayor of Neuilly Surman and the Vice president of the Greater Paris Great East Administration. Welcome.
Absolutely. It's great to have you. I was just in Paris like a few weeks ago and every time I go I think I do learn to love France more and more, especially the bakeries of course, but also other aspects. So I'm excited to learn more also about the urban innovation and things happening in the region.
So before we get started into diving into some cool initiatives and projects and all of that that you're involved in, I want to get us a little warmed up with a little teaser question. And that question I have for you today is what is one fun fact or little known fact about Nuyi?
[00:02:00] Speaker C: Maybe I can say that during Napoleon III empire we had a largest city which include Nuy Surman and another city which is called now Neuilly Plaisance. And people of this part of the city, the western part, Nuit Plaisance had separated from us because we wanted to found the first school of the city and they didn't want to do so. So it was the first act of Resistan our city. And now we have the. The. The oldest school of this area.
[00:02:39] Speaker A: Ah, very interesting. And still probably bringing that education focus into other aspects. Right. Of life. Cool. Thanks for informing me and I always love a good fun fact about places.
I want to now learn a little bit more about you as a person. Your journey into becoming mayor. What's your background? Where did you come from? Bring us on that journey a little bit.
[00:03:03] Speaker C: So I'm 35 years old now, and actually I'm a child of the city of N.
Since my first week of life, I've lived in Nai Surman. So I was a baby in the city. I was a child, a teenager, and now an adult. And I can say that I have memories in every corner of this city, which is why I have a very strong attachment to this city.
And I may also say that I've always been very interested in politics. At five years old, during the 1995 presidential campaign, when people at the kindergarten asked me what I wanted to do and to be when I grew up, I would answer that I wanted to become Jacques Chirac, who was the president, the future president at that time. And later on I wanted to study political science.
So I studied at the Paris Faculty of Law. And I've been lawyer since I was 24.
So I'm 35 now. And during my studies from 2010 to 2012, I worked at the headquarter of the Righteous Political Party at that time. And I may say that it was an extraordinary life experience because in politics, you may see both of the best and the worst of human nature.
And some people go into politics to do good and while others just pretend to do so.
And then in 2012, I actually experienced this presidential campaign from the inside. It was really intense and truly fascinating. And two years later, in 2014, when I was 23, I ran as candidate for municipal elections in Nuit sur Marin. We lost, but it still came in.
But we came in second, and that was actually a victory for us.
And for six years I was the leader of the opposition within the city council. And in 2020, we won this election. So now I'm 35 years old and I'm mayor and I serve as vice president of Grand Paris, Grand Test Metropole, which is a significant district authority in the eastern of Paris metropolis.
And that's all.
[00:05:51] Speaker A: Sounds busy. Sounds like you've got a lot and a really impressive journey, so I congratulate you on that. Thank you.
And I love. That's actually probably one of my favorite things about my job is hearing how all the past experiences have gotten to shape where you're at today. So really incredible journey there.
Yeah. For our international listeners, could you explain for us what is the role of the Marie? If I'm saying that correctly, my French is very bad. But which is the city council in France and what are kind of the key responsibilities and limitations?
[00:06:27] Speaker C: Actually, Mary, the city council is a very old institution. In France, because we can see that it comes from the French Revolution. And in France now we have more than 35,000 municipalities in France. And we can say that the municipality is a fundamental unit of the Republic in France and within which the mayor and the city council has a very important role.
And today in the East Surman, so we have more than 40,000 inhabitants. And we are growing up, so maybe we will reach the 50,000 in the few years.
So the local municipality here in France can create and manage nearly, we can say all public services close to the people. So we have nurseries, we have preschools, primary schools, we have to manage roads, parks, gardens, the cleanliness, the urban planning, stadiums, gyms.
We may also talk about community and sport life events in the city, health services.
We have, for example, facilities for doctors, economic development and also safety, because we have municipal police, which is armed, video surveillance, etc. So we can say we can do a lot of things linked to local public services.
And currently in Nuit sur Marne, we have more than 900 municipal employees who are working in all these areas. And we have an annual budget of more than 100 million euros. So we can say that in France merries can do a lot of things. And in France, if I can add, cities can take a wide range of responsibilities. And that's what makes it so exciting, because it, if there is a political will, we can launch real major initiatives. For example, we can maybe detail later, but we have created a true nature tourism hub in the city of Neuy sur Marne, with a municipal campground, a municipal marina and service for renting electric license free boats.
So we also have municipal beers.
So actually, if you want to do something, you can do it in France. And that is really exciting from an economic standpoint, it's not very liberal, but it provides strong initial strength.
And we can, we can then let the private sector take over all these initiatives.
And today maybe we can say that the main limitation of all we want to do is the cost of public service.
[00:09:58] Speaker A: Yeah, really interesting structure. I think there's a lot to learn from looking at all the different structures that different countries have and trying to pick the pieces that are best.
One of the pressing challenges is of course for government around funding.
How does your municipality manage to secure financial resources needed for the daily operations? Of course, and then also though for these long term investments or innovation, etc.
[00:10:26] Speaker C: Yes, actually in France we have a principle which is called the free administration of local authorities, but it rhymes with their financial autonomy. The problem is that a lot of countries in Europe we have the same problem. And we, you know, between 2013 and 2024, we have.
The funding from the government in France for municipalities has decreased a lot because we had around 41 billion euros in 2013, and we have only 27 billion in 2024.
So we have lost more than 14 billion euros. So it reduces also our financial autonomy.
And in addition, in Ny Sur Marne and in France also we had the energy crisis, which has increased in 2022, which has increased costs from 2 million euros per year to 10 million euros per year. So it was absolutely awful and we had to find solutions.
So, one hand, we do not want to reduce essential public services to people, because it is simply unacceptable to tell residents they will pay the same or more for fewer services.
And on the other hand, the easy solution of constantly raising taxes is not acceptable either. So we can feel that more and more people are struggling with the idea of tax consent. And we know that if that consent disappears, we no longer live as a united nation.
And people would only be willing to pay for services that benefit to them directly.
The national solidarity, the national security, public education, that things would totally be called into question.
So we are making sure to keep investing because we want to continue to invest in order to direct our investments toward projects that will generate savings in the future, for future generation. For example, we have renovated buildings in order to improve their energy efficiency, and it will help to reduce energy bills for school, for administrative buildings, we have planting trees and grass.
It may help to prevent from future floodings.
So we have to be smart, and we need smart public services in order to continue to grow.
And another strategy is to create new revenues generated by different services. And for instance, our new municipal campground, which is really beautiful and located to the river, just 10 km from Paris, it brings incomes and it boosts their local economy.
So we need to be, I may say, much smarter than before if we want to continue to keep growing.
[00:14:17] Speaker A: Yeah, makes a lot of sense. I think many cities right now are really faced with what. What should we invest in that's actually going to have that roi that's actually going to bring us benefits in the future? So definitely some good analysis needed on, on that aspect.
France is kind of known for its push towards decentralization.
But where do you believe the line should be drawn?
How do you define the level of responsibility for your municipality? Or on a broader scale.
[00:14:50] Speaker C: Maybe I can say that high decentralization implies risks of regional favoritism and maybe unequal treatments of citizen, which may challenge the unity of the Republic. So we have to find a balance.
And in my view, we need a strong central government that can plan for the long term, one that sets a clear direction for the next 10, 20, 30 years.
In order to know what intends to be done, the central states must have a real vision and provide direction while supporting local initiatives that align with that vision. At the same time, the state must also give local authorities the means to develop. Because we understand the local realities better than anyone. I think we often come up with solutions, but we have to struggle to implement them due to excessive rigidity at the national level. So I believe that the state should refocus on its role as a long term planner and visionary and give more flexibility and freedom of action to local initiatives when it comes to managing day to day affairs.
[00:16:31] Speaker A: Yeah, makes sense.
I think it's such a tough balance to get the right mix. I think we're still figuring it out a lot of the time.
I think you mentioned it briefly, but I want to highlight one of your achievements in the city. And this is the tourism hub. Can you kind of walk us through the initiative and share some of the results that you've seen?
[00:16:52] Speaker C: Yes, of course.
Actually, in 2020, when we were elected, we discovered a site within the city that was almost abundant, which is located by the river with many trees and an exceptional setting. And it was a camps created in 1952, but it was in a real degraded state. So it was. Since we are just 10km from Paris, 25 minutes from Disneyland by the direct rer line, which is the metro in the suburb, and only 15 minutes by bike from the Olympic site of Ver sur Marne. I wanted to develop this site ahead of the Paris 2024 Olympic Games.
So we invested 3 million euros over two years in order to create 120 pitches with fully equipped tiny houses, sport areas, vegetable gardens, grass pathway, essentially recreat, actually a little paradise.
And from its opening in 2022, it has been a real success.
And in 2022 the campsite hosted more than 8,000 different visitors within more than 20,000 nights.
And we had also more than 80% of customers who are foreign tourists from over 30 countries. So it was a.
And during the Olympics I remember that we had also notable guests as different athletes who have attended the Olympic Games and also Sander de Graaf, who is a Dutch silver medalist in rowing and also a part of the Jamaican athletic teams.
So it was a real success. And I can say that we have no serious criticisms of this project because it has helped to showcase a natural site that was abandoned and we have strengthened urban nature. And the revenue generated also allows us to invest in other projects while giving the city a positive image worldwide. So everyone winks.
[00:19:39] Speaker A: I would like to come visit sometime and check it out. You painted a beautiful picture of a paradise, Sarah.
I would love to come check it out sometime.
I want to also highlight another major initiative that you've been part of, around youth Engagement. It's your pass for young citizen program.
It's received national recognition as well. So what inspired it? What is it exactly?
Tell us all about it.
[00:20:08] Speaker C: I can say that this project was especially close to my heart because as we have discussed before, I'm a child of this city. So I remember that when I was a teenager there wasn't much to do in town. So in August 2020, just one month after we were elected, I remember that an incident occurred in the city and that was the following Inc. 3 teenagers slapped a 20 year old nurse on a bus simply because she asked them to wear a mask to protect against Covid.
And the youth were arrested and they were only 13 and 14 years old.
So that's when I realized we absolutely had to do something from young people and starting at 12 years old and not wait until 16 or 17 or 18 like most youth programs do.
So I started thinking about how to encourage teenagers to do good deeds and to stay on the right path and while also rewarding their efforts. So we created this program, Passe Jeunes Citoyen in French. And the concept is very simple. Young people between the age of 12 and 20 earn one point for every hour they spent either helping their city through civic missions or volunteering with humanitarian or sports association in town.
So they collect points and they can exchange them for rewards. And for example, with 30 points, you can get an electric scooter or a Nintendo Switch.
With 50 points you can get a laptop or a bike or a PlayStation 5.
With 80 points you have an electric bike or with 100, you can go for a driver's license. So it took off quickly and in just three years we had more than 1100 young people who have taken part of this program. So it helps young people build self confidence, it encourages them to get involved and it teaches them the responsibility through positive actions. So I'm really attached to this program.
[00:23:10] Speaker A: I can tell that I mentioned two of your baby projects, your initiatives that you hold very close to your heart. I know that the listeners can't see you, but your face kind of lit up when I mentioned those two.
So it's great to see that. Also the, the Passion behind it.
From your perspective, you mentioned great things that are happening. Obviously, there's still a lot of challenges. What do you think is the main challenge you're facing still in your municipality? And also, what kind of tool in your toolbox or what kind of support do you think you need to really accelerate this change?
[00:23:50] Speaker C: Actually, in France, as in Nuit sur Marin, the unity of the nation is the main, I think, thing on which we have to focus.
And we can see a real social diversity in the city. So we have very diverse population requiring policies that promote social mix and integration through maybe cultural and educational initiatives.
So we need to. For that we really need shared symbols to build a sense of nationhood between people.
Then maybe I can say that we have to rebalance public policies, and our objective is to achieve social mix and ensuring equitable access to public services in every part of the city. And we need to continue our initiative in innovating initiatives. And the support of the state is really essential.
So maybe I can say that in France, in my city, we have a successful experiment of school uniforms, and in England it's normal, but in France it's absolutely not.
And we need the support of the state in order to continue to preserve this unity of the nation through different actions. So that's what we are doing. And that's the main challenge I can see.
[00:25:41] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Of course, in these times, integration is such a vital topic. And you also touched on a topic that's actually really near and dear to my heart, which is around creating urban identity within cities, shared, as you mentioned, kind of this shared identity that you can bring forward with all the citizens and also proclaim that on an international level and more so important right now, I think, on all aspects.
I want to give you a minute, if you'd like as well. This is our open floor. We touched on a lot of things. We talked about a couple initiatives that are close to your heart. But there might be things that we missed. Is there anything else that you think is really important for the listeners to know that you would like to present today?
[00:26:23] Speaker C: Maybe I can just add that the involvement and the engagement of people is absolutely essential.
This is something very important because we see that public services and public administrations and roles as mayor are not very attractive to people. But if we do not do this for the community, for the nation, the nation will disappear. So we have to fight in order to preserve the essential values that we have to share.
And this is something I'm really concerned by because of the fact that I see that young people are not very interested in politics and doing good things for the nation.
[00:27:18] Speaker A: Yeah, really good point.
With that, we move to our segment. We have different segments for different guests. The ones that we. The one that we brought to you today is called Inspire us.
Inspire us just a little bit with a story, a quote, or anything that has inspired you recently.
[00:27:42] Speaker C: Actually, I can say two things. Maybe the first one is a little statue of Zarathustra. Zarathustra means Zarathustra in Persian, which is on my desk and looks at me and it reminds me this essential triad of Zarathustra, which is good thoughts, good words and good deeds. So this is something very simple, but we have to keep in mind for all the day. And I think that it is very important to remember these three simple things that may lead to, I think, good actions and maybe something a bit more political.
Maybe it's a sentence of General de Gaulle.
I will try to translate it in English. And maybe it may be the politics, when practiced as an art and a form of service, not as means of exploitation, is the pursuit of an idol through engagement with real world challenges. It's a bit complicated, but I think that we have to keep this in mind in order to remember what the.
What politics is for.
So that's, I think, the essence of the actions and acting in politics, really.
[00:29:22] Speaker A: Perfect inspiration in these times. I mean, we see so often politicians in it for the power and not really having their base values like you outlined down.
And why, the why actually being quite important. So I'm really happy to get the chance to talk to you and learn about your core values.
The last question I have for you, it's the question that we ask every single guest that comes onto the show. And it is to you, what is a smart city?
[00:29:53] Speaker C: Maybe a smart city leverages the potential of its residents, offering opportunities for them to flourish and contribute to the society and the nation.
[00:30:06] Speaker A: I like the focus on enabling the citizens.
I really like that. As you can imagine, I get lots of different responses based on people's different perspectives for that question. So it's an interesting compilation of definitions.
With that, I have to say a big thank you for taking the time. Yeah, thank you for coming on talking to me. I learned a lot from you and I'm confident that the listeners will too.
So, yeah, thank you so much.
[00:30:32] Speaker C: Thank you very much. Have a good day.
[00:30:34] Speaker A: Have a good day. And of course, thank you to all of our listeners. It wouldn't happen without you. And don't forget, you can always create a free account on baba-smartcities eu and you can find out more about smart city projects, solutions, implementations and more. Thank you very much.
Thank you all for listening. I'll see you at the next stop on the journey to a better urban life.
