Episode Transcript
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:00:06 Welcome to Smart in the City, the BABLE Podcast where we bring together top actors in the Smart City arena, sparking dialogues and interactions around the stakeholders and themes most prevalent for today's citizens and tomorrow's generations.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:00:21 I am your host, Tamlyn Shimizu, and I hope that you'll enjoy this episode and gain knowledge and connections to drive the change for a better urban life. Smart in the City is brought to you by BABLE Smart Cities. We enable processes from research and strategy development to co-creation and implementation. To learn more about us, please visit the BABLE platform at bable-smartcities.eu. So a short intermission to tell you about the Autonomy Mobility World Expo. It's the world's largest annual gathering of international sustainable urban mobility stakeholders. Welcoming 200 plus exhibitors, 300 plus speakers, 8,000 plus participants every year in March. Uh, yeah, some activities. There's a startup village, city Hub, two conference programs, test tracks, demos, B2B and B two G meetings, startup Challenge and innovation award ceremony. It will take place on the 22nd through the 23rd of March in Paris, and I will be there and I'm looking forward to it and hope to see you there.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:01:25 So we can never go, uh, yeah, too long without talking about transport and mobility on a Smart Cities podcast. Um, and today we want to dive into that topic, um, from a small German city slash town perspective. Um, so let's go to Bavaria, Germany. Um, while I'm sure you all have images of Munich, um, in your head, we want to explore a bit of a smaller place, just 32 kilometers west of Munich. So here to introduce the place and give all of her insights is Montserrat Miramontes. Um, she is the transport planner and in charge of mobility management at the city of Fürstenfeldbruck in Bavaria, Germany. So welcome onto the podcast.
Montserrat Miramontes 00:02:11 Hi, Tamlyn. I'm really glad to be here. Thank you very much for the invitation.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:02:14 Yeah, anytime. We are already talking about how you have to come, um, to Stu next time in, uh, for the second episode. So, um, uh, yeah, you know, I'm excited to talk to you today about it, but I'm sure we can always dig into even more with you. So yeah, thank you so much.
Montserrat Miramontes 00:02:30 I will be really, really glad to visit you,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:02:33 <laugh>. Yeah, we can come back there too. You know, I, I always take an excuse to come to, to Bavaria in Munich, so
Montserrat Miramontes 00:02:39 You are always
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:02:40 Very welcome, <laugh>. Thank you. So we, um, we always start off the, the episode with a bit of a teaser. Um, and we haven't done this one in a while, and it's one of my favorites. Um, so it is, if Fürstenfeldbruck were an animal, which animal would it be?
Montserrat Miramontes 00:02:59 I was sharing that
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:03:01 Question
Montserrat Miramontes 00:03:01 <laugh>, and I didn't prepare for
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:03:03 It. That's okay. It doesn't, it's not a question that needs preparation, it's just, um, your first instinct kind of question. Yeah. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
Montserrat Miramontes 00:03:12 Well, it's difficult.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:03:15 Would it be a land animal or an ocean animal?
Montserrat Miramontes 00:03:19 It would be an animal that is next to a river, because we have a river across the city. Yeah. Maybe it would be a beaver.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:03:31 A beaver, yeah. Good. Um, in any other reason besides that, it's on the river.
Montserrat Miramontes 00:03:38 No, right now, not really. I know that they build dams. Yeah. That, I'm not sure this is what the city does,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:03:44 <laugh> <laugh>, but you know, they're very, they're very clever in and gathering the resources and building what they need on the river. Right.
Montserrat Miramontes 00:03:52 Well, that, uh, then it did really works, <laugh>.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:03:55 Okay, perfect. I love it. I've never gotten Beaver before, so it, it's a very original answer and I love it. So, um, good. So you've obviously listened to other, uh, episodes where I've asked that question, <laugh>.
Montserrat Miramontes 00:04:08 I did. I did. And well, I was fearing that question,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:04:13 <laugh>. Well, well, it wasn't too bad.
Montserrat Miramontes 00:04:14 Glad you found something. Yeah, no, it's good. It's a good start. Oh,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:04:19 Good. Um, so, uh, Montserrat, so could you maybe start, um, by explaining to us what do you do and also a little bit about your background is always really interesting to know more about you and where you came from.
Montserrat Miramontes 00:04:33 Sure, sure. I'm really happy to have this opportunity. Well, um, first of all, I am Mexican. I think that's, uh, an important part of the background. I came to Germany like 15 years ago to study a master's degree in environmental engineering, and there I got really interested in urban development and sustainable urban development. And then the, my, my career took me on the way to mobility. Specifically, I had the opportunity to work in Washington, DC for an NGO o which, um, uh, gives advice to cities on how to reduce air pollution. Specifically, uh, Latin American city. It was Latin American cities. It is called the Air Cleaner Institute. And then I, I came back to Germany, um, then I was studying in the university, uh, technical University of Munich. I was teaching there on emissions from transport and how to reduce emissions from transport. And finally I did my PhD, um, that was related to the concept of sustainable urban mobility and how mobility stations or multi-model stations can contribute to that concept.
Montserrat Miramontes 00:05:47 And while after that, I started to work for the city of Fürstenfeldbruck, where I do the, I'm, I'm in charge of transport planning strategically and also on mobility management. And I really like this job because it, it has two very important parts, which is the transport planning itself, which is very related to infrastructure and services. Like we have to design streets or redesign the streets or together with a colleague. We also, um, design cycling infrastructure, not only the cycleways, but also where the bikes should, um, um, be placed after the mm-hmm. <affirmative> when they are not in use. And then, uh, the part of mobility management is more about communication. So we try to do campaigns, information campaigns, um, all kind of communication so we can convince citizens to use alternatives to car. So this is the main aspect of this mobility management, is to show people which other alternatives they have, such as public transport or cycling or sharing services. And, well, this is pretty much, um, a summary of what I do.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:07:06 Yeah, yeah. Super interesting background as well. Um, and is, that's hard to do in southern Germany, right? It's convince people, uh, to not use their cars. Um, do you, do you find that as a big challenge?
Montserrat Miramontes 00:07:20 Uh, well, yes, it is. Uh, we have, I, I perceive that we have like two parts of the population. The ones that are really, really wanting to use bikes and are really extreme and are really focus on the environment and they really want to change things. And the others that are more like they love their cars, like yeah, can say Germans love their cars. And of course we have the car industry specifically, not only in Germany, but also in Bavaria. So that makes it really difficult because, um, the lobby is really strong. And so any measure that is against the car has, uh, a political problem. Yeah. So we, we really need to be very clever if we really want to change mobility patterns. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and that applies as well to the city of first of Fürstenfeldbruck also because it's less urban. It is urban, of course, but it's less urban than Munich, where you have like, uh, metro S one all kind of, uh, bus services also sharing services we, which we don't have yet in Fürstenfeldbruck. So it's really hard to offer something else.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:08:35 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It sounds so, um, so maybe to start off with your definition, like what exactly is sustainable mobility to you? Um, like what does that mean?
Montserrat Miramontes 00:08:48 Yeah. Well, thank you for asking that question because it's something that, uh, I really like to talk about. This is something that was part of my dissertation as I told you. Um, I had the task to evaluate the impacts of mobility stations. I can talk also later about that on the concept of sustainable, urban and mobility. And for that, I had to define that. So of course I look at, uh, a lot of definitions from other scientists or from other organizations, but also we probably all know the very well known definition of sustainable development from the Poland Commission. And based on that, I came to the definition of sustainable mobility as a result of a transport system that allows goods to be delivered and all people to fulfill their needs in a way that the resources needed for this are not plated, allow, allowing future generations to do the same.
Montserrat Miramontes 00:09:47 So as you see is, is very based on the broadband definition of sustainable development. And while well with that, I, I mean, for fulfilling the needs, we need to reach a lot of places like, uh, our workplace, uh, our university, our school. So any place where we can get, uh, the things we need for a daily, for our daily life, like shops, uh, glacier, meeting other people, and to reach these places, we also need mobility services. So this is something that we should provide to have sustainable mobility, but at the same time, we need to reduce their resources that we consume by doing this mobility. And maybe you can imagine some of them for of course, we need space to move, we need, uh, energy, we need time, and we ne we need money. So if we can reduce these resources, maybe we can reduce also many other resources that we consume on the way. So I hope this, those
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:10:53 Are some big factors, right? Time, money, energy, um, that this seems like a big challenge. Um, maybe you can also speak to some of the other main challenges you see when planning and implementing such like a transport development plan in a city, like, um, first and felt walk.
Montserrat Miramontes 00:11:13 Well, the challenges is, of course, to find an equilibrium. Like, first of all, we need to know what do we want. That was a very important task that we had to do when we, when we were doing our transport development plan. It is done like it was, um, decided like, um, one year ago, well, it was November, 2021. And for that, we took, it took us like almost four years, uh, to do all the process of collecting information, but also asking the politicians, but also the, the citizens, what they want. And through this process, it was a participation process. And working with a lot of, uh, interest groups, we defined 10 big goals, like main goals that we wanted to follow. And of course, the challenge was to find some balance between different interests as if we talk about the cars, for example. Many wanted to reduce, uh, the cars or the car use, and others were not really looking forward to that.
Montserrat Miramontes 00:12:20 So finding and a balance was one of the main challenges in defining these goals. And of course, after that, what we needed to know is like, okay, how do we reach this goals? And for that, there were a lot, a lot of ideas that we had to process and analyze, is this really possible? Can we really pay for this? Um, is this gonna be accepted by the population? So we really had to do a, a very thorough analysis of this, all of this ideas and create, um, yeah, a list of projects that we wanted to implement in the next years. And at the same time, we had to prioritize like, okay, we have like 60 measures, 60 projects that we want to implement until 2035, but then where, where should we start? And how do we do this in a strategic way that we kind of, um, can, um, do it efficiently? Yeah,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:13:20 Yeah. Yeah. Setting the priorities is always, uh, difficult. We've, we've seen that also many times in, in making more like smart district roadmaps for municipalities and things like that. Um, it's, it's, it's a lot of talking to a lot of stakeholders and, uh, and figuring out the efficiency of, of each one and the impact. Right. So, yeah. Sounds really interesting. Um, we spoke before also about, um, transport demand measures, I believe. Um, can you explain a bit about them and how your city uses them?
Montserrat Miramontes 00:13:52 Yeah, sure. Well, we have, um, many different channels of communications. We have a website, we have also social media, and we have a monthly report on the, on ma. Many different issues about the city. Every citizen or every, almost every household get one of this, um, report. So in that way, we can communicate about, um, things that we are doing for mobility. For example, we can, one of the big projects we did was, um, uh, supporting program for biking, for, uh, buying car cargo bikes and other two wheelers like, uh, PEX for example. So we communicate, um, this through this channel. And one of the other very important events during this year is, or during every year, is the, the, uh, or European Mobility Week. During that week, we, we have the opportunity to present a lot of different alternatives. We have different events, different actions to, to talk to the citizens, to show them alternatives and other campaigns. Like in Germany, there is one called <unk> where we invite people to, to bike, um, and collect kilometers. And at the end, there is a winner. Oh, this is the kind of things that we do.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:15:23 Yeah. Yeah. Very interesting. Um, and I think, uh, I also come from this communication perspective as well. Um, so, so I love that more. I, I feel like it's, it's becoming more and more of a, of a process in, in incorporating these communication measures into the work that, uh, municipalities do. So, glad to hear that. Um, we, I, you also mentioned previously about mobility hubs, um, and, uh, I think this is one of your special projects you might want to talk about, or can you, can you elaborate on that and, and tell us, uh, about your experience there?
Montserrat Miramontes 00:16:01 Sure, sure. Mobility hubs is really, really one of the, my favorite topics because I wrote my dissertation on that. I call them a STEAM mobility stations, but the new word is, oh yeah, really? Yeah. Mobility hubs, this is the new word, or it's more spread right now mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And while these are node or intersections or places where you can find a lot of different options for your mobility, such as, first of all, well, often there is like a public transport stop, either like a metro station or a bus stop or similar. And in addition to that, there is always a sharing option, like bike sharing or car sharing, or now we have a scooter sharing, so anything with sharing is probably there. And the idea of this is like to first, to give you the opportunity to continue your trip after you, for example, um, step out of the bus and you want to reach a place that might not be too close to walk.
Montserrat Miramontes 00:17:01 So you can find this alternative. Like you can take the ES scooter or you can take a bike. And the other idea of that is to provide for multimodel mobility so that you can choose which mode of transport is more adequate for the purpose of your trip. So it depends on the distance, it depends on what you're gonna do, if you're gonna carry things, if you're going to with other people. In that case, maybe you will need a car to carry something somewhere. So in that case, you can have a better option or a better choice. What is for that purpose, for that trip, more efficient. So, yeah, and we are in Fürstenfeldbruck, we don't have very, uh, any mobility station or any mobility hub yet. But we are really working, uh, hard to get them since, um, like four years we have been planning them. We have to do some <inaudible>, a lot of process like, um, a tender so we can get the providers of the different options and to plan the stations. Like where are the go, different things, uh, where, where are they gonna be placed? And we hope that, uh, this year, the first, uh, five or 10 mobility stations will, will come. Oh, wow. So
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:18:22 We are really
Montserrat Miramontes 00:18:23 Looking forward. Yeah. Well, we are really looking forward to that.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:18:27 Yeah. Yeah. That's exciting. And, and in that whole process, what do you think are the biggest like bottlenecks or challenges, um, that, that other municipalities should maybe watch out for?
Montserrat Miramontes 00:18:40 Well, I think a big issue for us in this case was, uh, the tender tendering process specifically for us was probably challenging because we are the first, um, I don't know about any other example where many different municipalities work together. This parish is being coordinated by the district, which is called Landkreis of Fürstenfeldbruck. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And this includes many other municipalities. And the district is coordinating this project, and I think one of the challenges was to put everyone on one table and to see, are you interested in doing this? Then when, when some municipalities, uh, signed up for the project, they had to get some political, um, approved approval in their own city consoles. And well, and then from that was also saying where, where are gonna be this mobility stations, how much are they gonna cost? Um, that was also a big challenge because we didn't know how, uh, we had to use the data from other, or approximations from other cities. And, um, I think that was a big bottleneck, I would say, like, to get through to. And then, um, I think that was one of the most challenging part is to, to get an agreement that the district will do the entering process for us. And for that, we all have to sign o our, our, um, <unk>
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:20:20 <laugh>, the, the mayors
Montserrat Miramontes 00:20:21 The mayors mm-hmm. <affirmative> had to sign. Okay. We, we agree that the district does the tendering process and well, this, this has been the, the big challenge also to, to have an agreement on that. Like, what do we want for the different mobility services?
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:20:39 Ah, okay. So did you do, uh, did you do one tendering process? So you did one tendering process then, or joint procurement, or?
Montserrat Miramontes 00:20:47 There are many, because we have different things to do. For example, the first one is the planning of the stations. And this has to do by hub. It's gonna be done by only one company or a planning company. That will be the same for all the municipalities. Then, um, the materials that we will need, we also have to do a tender process for that. For example, the, yeah. Um, the biking stations, this is another component. Then we have the car sharing, and yeah, so the, for all of this, uh, elements, there is one tendering process.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:21:29 Okay. Yeah. Interesting. Um, we, we often see different models also with, um, you know, uh, for example, I was speaking yesterday with, um, someone from Harlem in the Netherlands, and they often do a procurement process with Amsterdam. It's kind of a small, small town together with the large city that they, that they work together on these type of things. It, it sounds like you did it more within your district, right? Not together with Munich.
Montserrat Miramontes 00:21:57 Well, yes and no. Like we, the city of Munich has already one bike sharing system, and originally we thought we don't need to have a tendering process for that. We can argue that the is a really one and we want it to be the same here. And that makes sense. Like, it, it wouldn't make sense to have two different ones. Yeah. But at the end, it turns out now, uh, because of the funding program that we got, they say, no, you have to do a tendering process. Mm. So that was one factor, which, um, played against us in the implementation process, but it also give us an opportunity to find or to, to say what we want. Yeah. Which also can make it longer. Yeah. And, and another thing with the city of Munich is that we do want to have like an integrated, um, like a corporate design. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah. The city of Munich is also working on, on the implementation of mobility stations. And one, one big el, one important element is the information column or information thing, <laugh>, where you can, uh, say, well, what, what, what can you find in this station? What can you, which services are available?
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:23:20 Uh, okay. The, the board. Yes. Yeah,
Montserrat Miramontes 00:23:22 Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And for that there is a lot of communication between the city of Munich and the district. So we can have like a very similar org or the similar com corporate design, so everybody understands, okay, this is a mobility station. Like when you go to a metro station, you always see, see in Germany, for example, the U for <inaudible> mm-hmm. <affirmative> mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So you don't need to think about what is that. So everywhere in Germany is the same sign, or also for the suburban trends is the s for the S one. Yeah. And that's the idea with the board or the information point to see, okay, I recognize the scientist is a mobility station. Mm-hmm.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:24:08 <affirmative>. Yeah. Yeah. Really, really interesting. And I'm excited to see what comes out. We might have to do an episode after you have some of them, um, running and then, and then talk a little bit more about it, cuz that's also super interesting. Sure.
Montserrat Miramontes 00:24:21 I would love to show you some of them.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:24:22 Yeah. Yeah. And, and we can come and see them hopefully too. So yeah. Not so far from us. Okay. Good. Um, yeah, I just have one other question because we talked a little bit about communication. Um, as far as, uh, you know, some people have differing opinions, obviously some people are, um, very keen to say, Hey, yeah, let's bicycle more. Some people are saying, um, no, I want to keep my cars. Um, what would you say to like, critics basically saying that either the government doesn't do enough, um, or that the government is meddling too much, such as like removing cars from streets. Um, what, how do you, how do you balance that?
Montserrat Miramontes 00:25:04 Well, um, I think there is self, self balance because we have, um, a democracy. Yeah. And we have a city council, which is Yeah. Which, uh, people choose mm-hmm. <affirmative>, so people to be there, some politicians to be there, and they represent the interest of the, the voters, right? Yeah. So, um, the city does what we are told, basically, of course we have some ideas and we can bring some ideas, but at the end it has to be decided by the council and has to be approved. So I think we don't do too much of any, like of course we sometimes we want to reduce the amount of parking spaces at some point, but then there is someone defending them so we can get a, just a compromise of what we want, you know? And the same with communication. I mean, in this case, I don't think we do that much, that we should be stopped. Actually we could do even more. And while I think that's, uh, that the answer to your question Yeah. I hope.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:26:11 Yeah, yeah. No, it's always interesting to hear the, the perspectives on how we can Yeah. Balance different expectations that some people always will say that the government doesn't do enough. And then some people will always say that you're doing too much, um, <laugh>. So I always think it's, yeah, you can never please everyone, right,
Montserrat Miramontes 00:26:29 <laugh>. That's right. Like, that's one of the things I had to learn when it's like working in for the city administration is like, you can never, uh, make everyone happy. Yeah. Like, of course, course the cyclist, the cyclists are super happy when you take some lanes and you create, uh, some, some, sorry, some parking spaces and you create a bike lane, but then you have the other citizens that are super angry because you took away their parking spaces or, or also the peoples from the shops who believe that the parking spaces are very important for their business. So I had to learn that. Uh, at the beginning I was looking on the Facebook groups of the city, like, what are the opinions of people? And I gave up because, uh, I felt sometimes that people were really frustrating and saying, oh, the city doesn't do anything. They do everything wrong. And that was really hard to read, to see, oh, we, we really try, we do our best. And then, well, I just learned when you do good things, it's very rare that someone tells you and that, uh, you get like, oh, thank you very much for doing this. But if you do something that might go a little bit wrong, that is, you get really hard comments and yeah, it's really loud, so, well we have to live with that.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:27:48 Yeah. People always leave the bad reviews. Right. But, uh, don't tend to leave the good reviews as much. So <laugh>
Montserrat Miramontes 00:27:54 Mostly, mostly I, I did have the experience that I did also get some phone calls from someone to chat me, Hey, thank you very much for your work. It's so nice that you Oh,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:28:04 That's
Montserrat Miramontes 00:28:05 Nice are providing these services or these ideas. And I almost cried. I was like, oh, thank you very much. I feel so happy.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:28:13 So show appreciation, <laugh>. Yeah. Everyone. Yeah.
Montserrat Miramontes 00:28:17 Yeah. But this is like rare where you get this mostly the complaints.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:28:23 Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, so I wanted to, uh, now move on to a segment that we have. Um, and it's a segment that we call shout out, shout out, mention a person, an organization or a city you think deserves more recognition in the field. So maybe a city that's doing amazing things in mobility that you wanna shout out, or maybe a specific person or an organization that you partner with that you want to shout out on the, on the podcast. Do you have someone that comes to mind,
Montserrat Miramontes 00:29:05 Uh, to mention someone or a city that is, uh, doing really
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:29:08 Well? Yeah. Showing recognition or appreciation And we are just talking about appreciation. Now, is your chance <laugh> to give appreciation to, to someone or some, some organization or city?
Montserrat Miramontes 00:29:21 I can think right now of the city of Lindo at SEN and they are really working a lot on sustainable mobility. I know the transport planner there, the mobility. Also, he also does mobility management. He also won a prize for the European Mobility Week. And they are really working very hard on providing and supporting sustainable mobility. They have a cargo bike sharing system. Oh, nice. And well among many other things that I think is something worth to mention.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:29:55 Yeah, yeah. Perfect. Um, yeah, and not too far also, um, from us. So
Montserrat Miramontes 00:30:01 It's worth a visit.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:30:02 Oh yeah, yeah. Boze is always, is always nice to go to also. Um, yeah. So now is the question that we ask every single guest, and it is, uh, to you what is a smart city?
Montserrat Miramontes 00:30:17 Um, I also had the opportunity to think about that because I, I, I heard that you asked this question,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:30:23 <laugh>, you did your homework. Yeah,
Montserrat Miramontes 00:30:25 I did my homework, yeah. And I thought a lot about this. I know that smart city is so, is often linked with some, with a lot of technology or internet of the things or things like that in many cases. But for me, I thought about the concept and I thought I will link this idea of smart city to the concept of sustainability that we talked at the beginning. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. I think that a city that is so smart also listens and understand its citizens and is able to provide a basic infrastructure for everyone to satisfy their needs. So again, the idea of sustainability while, uh, the resources needed for this are being used with care in a way, a bit like, um, you have a, in this topic in your podcast, um, with the c with the idea of circular economy mm-hmm. <affirmative> like this, resources are always kept in the circle. That for me will be a smart setting, city.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:31:30 Very nice.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:31:31 Yeah. Yeah. I love that definition. Um, well, you know, we've been playing around with this definition a lot using, uh, the chat g p t and things along those lines to, to hone in. And I actually think that the best, um, the best answers though still outdo chat, G p t, um, that I've had on the podcast. So it's always, you can definitely hear everyone's varying backgrounds in their answer to that question. So it's, it's very interesting. So, um, yeah, thank you so much. And also shout out to Voto, um, for the, uh, circular Economy podcast episode. If you haven't listened to that one, um, make sure you go back and listen to it. It's, it's really fun and I think we should be doing more with, um, looking at resources and circular, um, topics within smart city. So, um, definitely. Yeah. And with that, that's all she wrote. Um, I've really appreciate you coming onto the show, Montserrat, and I love all the different projects and your insights and, uh, the way you speak about, um, your background that's contributed to your work now. It's, it's all really, really valuable. So thank you so much.
Montserrat Miramontes 00:32:39 Thank you very much ta for this invitation and this opportunity to, to talk about my work. And I really hope we can meet again and or you can come and we can see the first mobility stations when they are there. Yes. So
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:32:51 We can have a ride looking forward to it. Yes. Some
Montserrat Miramontes 00:32:53 Somehow
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:32:54 <laugh>. Anytime. Anytime. I would love to come. So yeah, thank you so much. And to all of our listeners, don't forget, you can always create a free account on BABLE Smart cities.eu. Um, you can find out more about smart city projects, solutions, implementations, and more. So, um, thank you so much.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:33:13 Thank you all for listening. I'll see you at the next stop on the journey to a better urban life.
