Episode Transcript
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:00:06 Welcome to Smart in the City, the BABLE podcast where we bring together top actors in the smart city arena, sparking dialogues and interactions around the stakeholders and themes most prevalent for today's citizens and tomorrow's generations.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:00:21 I am your host, Tamlyn Shimizu, and I hope you'll enjoy this episode and gain knowledge and connections to accelerate the change for a better urban life. Smart in the city is brought to you by BABLE Smart Cities. We enable processes from research and strategy development to co-creation and implementation. To learn more about us, please visit the BABLE platform at bable-smartcities.eu. So, uh, today let's travel to one of the most unique regions in the world. Um, and we're going back to Copenhagen. So today we are talking about the region of Greater Copenhagen in another collaborative episode with Copenhagen capacity. Um, so why is this region so unique? Well, in case you didn't know, it's actually a region spanning two countries, Southern Sweden and Eastern Denmark. Um, so I want to speak to you all, um, about all the opportunities and challenges that this provides. And for that we have two very wonderful guests. The first, you might know for the original, the OGs of the, of the podcast, or if you've gone back and listened to the very first episode, we have Rikke Peterson. She's the head of Green transition team at Copenhagen. Capacity. Welcome back, Rikke.
Rikke Petersen 00:01:33 Thank you very much, Tamlyn. It's a pleasure.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:01:37 Yes, always a pleasure to speak to you and especially on the podcast. Um, and next we have a new guest. Um, her name is Ellen Cork. She's a project manager in strategic and partnerships and city development at Eon. Welcome, Ellen.
Rikke Petersen 00:01:52 Thanks a lot.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:01:53 Nice to see you here. Yes, nice to have you with us. So, um, we always get started with a little bit of a teaser, a warmup into the interview. Um, so I wanted to ask Riki, of course, we have to revisit some of the, uh, past episode Glory. Um, so you were one of the very first guests on the podcast over a year ago now. Um, what memory do you have of our first recording together?
Rikke Petersen 00:02:19 I have only good memories, Tamlyn <laugh>. It was, uh, uh, a good discussions, uh, good dis discussions, new. It was a new experience. We never did this kind of, uh, activity before and, uh, I think the results coming out of that was pretty good also. And it was just a good, good experience and a new thing to do for Cup Cab also to do this, uh, podcasts and yeah, and, um, have this kind of active in environment together.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:02:47 Yeah, it, well, it was a new experience for me too. It, our very first episode and now I'm at, I don't know, uh, reaching 40 episodes now, so. Oh, okay. Um, <laugh> not, not so fresh anymore. Got a few more, um, episodes under my belt. Um, and, uh, Ellen, I wanted to ask you, I know you live in Malmo, not Copenhagen, so why Malmo?
Ellen Corke 00:03:09 Well, um, yeah, I moved to TOK from, uh, a bit more north, so in Sweden, it's not north, it's still south of Stockholm, but, um, when I started to study and I have always loved s Scona, it's really great place to be. And, uh, quite soon I moved to, to Malama and, uh, it's really, it's, uh, really vibrant city with a lot of different, um, nationalities and, uh, it's innovative and it's fun, uh, and it has the ocean and yeah, I can continue. It's really great city to be in.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:03:48 Yeah, I really love it too when, when I go and visit. Um, and it's, it's really well connected to Copenhagen, obviously, so, um, uh, great place to be. So, um, I wanna dig more into this greater Copenhagen, <laugh>, a whole aspect, this very unique region. Um, but first I want to maybe introduce you guys a little bit more, um, uh, Ellen, maybe can you, can you please tell our listeners maybe a bit about your background? What led you to Greater Copenhagen into your current role?
Ellen Corke 00:04:20 Yeah, well, um, as I said, I moved to Greater Copenhagen to study and I've been, uh, living here since <laugh>. I've been working in different companies. I've been working as a consultant and I've been working at the city of Malm as well. So I've been, been in the public sector for quite some time, uh, and already then we started to co collaborate within Greater Copenhagen. Uh, and then, um, since I've been at Eon, we have been involved in different networks and projects and, uh, yeah, different activities around Greater Copenhagen. So, uh, that is, uh,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:04:58 Maybe for the listeners who don't know Eon as well, can you explain a little bit about what, what you do?
Ellen Corke 00:05:04 Yeah. So Eon is, uh, it's, uh, global com company, of course, uh, it's, um, German based, but here in Sweden and in the part of Eon where I sit in infrastructure solutions, we own and operate the district heating grids, and we also have a lot of products, uh, regarding solar, um, batteries and storage, and also, um, charging e vehicles, transport immobility. Uh, so we have quite a big spread of products. Uh, and, uh, we also are, uh, the energy company of the city of, of mro, for example. Um, and also operating in Stockholm, uh, and North Shopping and <inaudible>, so other cities in Sweden as well. And in other parts of Ian, we own the electricity grid as well.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:06:01 Okay. Yeah, very interesting. Enrique, can you, for those who haven't listened to the first episode, can you please, uh, introduce yourself a bit and your role and your background?
Rikke Petersen 00:06:10 Yes, certainly. Um, maybe I'll start with the introducing Copenhagen capacity. We are the investment promotion agency of Greater Co, the Greater Copenhagen region. So we promote internationally towards international businesses, uh, to come and establish in, in the region basically. So, uh, that's what we do. We have certain sectors that we focus on, life, science, tech and green transition. So we are scouting for great companies out in the world, uh, within those, these three sectors and try to attract them to here and to establish in, in our great region. Um, my background is definitely, you can say international, it's commercial. Uh, I've studied in both ahu, which is the second biggest town in Denmark and Copenhagen. And I've lived and worked and studied in Vienna where I lived for seven years. And I also lived, uh, for some time in Germany. So there's something with German and Germany for me as well. Um, but I, I I, I really enjoy working internationally, and I've always done so in different commercial, uh, departments. And what's really motivates me is the meeting with people and meeting with people from, from all over the world and try to help them, assist them and try help them to connect to others in order to make them doing good or have them getting more engaged here in, in the region.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:07:42 Absolutely. I think we share a lot of those, um, commonalities and in wanting to connect and talk to people. So thanks again for coming on. Um, so, uh, yeah, Rickke, I I want to explain maybe to our listeners a little bit more about how Greater Copenhagen actually works. It's very unique that it sits in between these two countries. Like how does that functionally work and how might it actually provide more opportunities? Um, also,
Rikke Petersen 00:08:10 I mean, it's not something you of, you know, you're part of a greater, or of, of this business region, but you don't really feel that on a daily basis. But we know we are one business region and we are two countries, and we are 85 municipalities and four regions, I think, uh, and 4.4 million inhabitants. So there is something about this density in this relatively small area. Um, and, um, uh, how does greater co work? We know that, uh, almost 10,000 suites are crossing the bridge every day that it, I think there's about 5,000, uh, the other way around. So there's a lot of traction between the two regions on a daily basis. So we are, we need each other. We work together. We, uh, we, we share the same airport, uh, we, we shop in the different countries. And, uh, so there's a lot of collaboration, a lot of interaction, a lot of business, and a lot of, uh, you can say opportunities coming out of this, um, collaboration or this region.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:09:14 Yeah, absolutely. What, what about in your experience, Ellen, you've been working in Greater Copenhagen now for quite some time. Um, does it, do you think it provides more opportunities for, for your company to have this like split between the two countries?
Ellen Corke 00:09:32 Uh, well, um, yeah, uh, I haven't that much experience in working in other regions, obviously, but, uh, I think for us it's, I mean, it's, uh, really inspirational being in this, uh, region in SCO and, uh, being close to Copenhagen because it's, it's really big ambitions both from the Copenhagen side and also in Malama, but in other parts of, of the region as well, uh, regarding sustainability. So it's, uh, I mean, they're really high ambitions and that sets the direction for us as a company as well to really increase our ambitions. And that's been very helpful for us. We have been using this area as a test bed for new solutions for quite some time now, and it's been successful for us. We have, uh, developed products here that is going, uh, on export now to other parts of Europe. Uh, and I think that it's the dynamic between the countries in the region and the innovative, a edge share that is, uh, uh, one of those, uh, I mean the, the reason for that. Um, so we have quite long experience in working together in collaboration with, of course, city of Malmo, but also with other municipalities in the region. But then also at the same time, uh, eon has quite different, um, businesses in Sweden and in Denmark. So we don't have the same, uh, uh, the same operations really. We, in Denmark for example, we focus a lot on biogas that we don't do in Sweden. Uh, so they are a bit different as well. And there are different regulations in the countries, even though we are very close.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:11:22 Yeah. And, and that might lead into it, that might also be a challenge, right? So, um, for, for companies, for example, who are looking to set up in Greater Copenhagen, what are the challenges that they should expect, um, to, to face, um, uh, Rikke, do you want to touch on that?
Rikke Petersen 00:11:39 The challenges are, I mean, if I can just also briefly touch on, on, and another important thing is that we have this greater Copenhagen committee. We have a organization looking at, uh, at making the, the, the infrastructure between the two countries most moves or to extend all the time. And also to, to look at the labor market. How do we do this most smooth how to, to work in 2, 2, 2 different country countries? Because what about tax? What about all, uh, structure, other structural things? And, and, and what about, um, but there's so many examples of how it's working really well and how we are connecting together, uh, industries like the, in the life science industry, we have a very strong cluster in the region called the Medic Valley Alliance, where you see the Swedish industry working very close together with the Danish industry. I think that's quite unique.
Rikke Petersen 00:12:33 And also at the moment, again, it's being discussed that we need an a metro between the two, uh, the two, uh, cities in order to, to have the labor force, uh, uh, going smooth, but also because the, the train connection between, uh, Denmark and Sweden is very dense, and there's so much going on in that, um, line of, uh, of, of train. So we need another connection in order to be more flexible. But coming back to your question, I think, um, of course there are challenges and, and, and we are still two different countries, and we also, even though we speak more or less the same languages language, we are different. And we have a bus, different business culture, and we have another, we are different, uh, as, as, as hu as human beings. So that can be, uh, a challenge. But I think we, it's, it's on a really, on a micro level, so no big deal.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:13:27 <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. All, all things can be, um, overcome, uh, with that, I think. Yeah. Um, yeah. So what do you think, Ellen, um, about, uh, sustainable energy future going on in the region? Um, how do you think Eon plays a role in that future, and how do you think that the region kind of supports that?
Ellen Corke 00:13:49 Yeah. Well, um, everyone knows we are in this, in the middle of this huge energy transition, of course. And, uh, that is driven by the climate ambitions, as I mentioned before, and also urbanization, and of course electrification. Uh, and the electrification particularly, uh, is, it's strong and, but it's really necessary. But I mean that it's happening a lot on the transport sector and in, in the industry sector. And, uh, also if you go outside of Sweden, uh, in the, um, built environment going from gas to electricity, uh, heating, for example. Um, and at the same time we have, uh, more and more renewable, uh, energy coming into the system. And that is, uh, a big, uh, challenge. Uh, so, uh, I think, um, I think we need to, uh, to really work with, uh, the flexibility approach, uh, to get more intermittent renewable electricity into the system. I mean, unfortunately in Sweden at least, it's been quite a polarized debate between nuclear or renewables. But I really think we need a mixture of the different sources, a mixture of different solutions to, to reach the decarbonization we need to do in the, in the system. So, uh, and Ian, of course, wants to be a, a part of that, uh, development and yeah, yeah, we see ourselves as a, as a driver of, uh, the energy transition really. We want to be in the leader seat <laugh>.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:15:35 Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And, uh, can you maybe give an example of, of a specific project or something along those lines, um, that, of something happening in Greater Copenhagen?
Ellen Corke 00:15:46 Yeah. We have had, uh, several projects within Greater Copenhagen cooperating between, uh, Swedish and Danish, uh, municipalities. Uh, we have had, uh, one called Smart Cities Accelerator, where we, for example, looked into both, uh, more system centralized energy solutions and into decentralized solutions and to a new kind of, um, I wouldn't call it business models, but, uh, models like energy communities, for example, and models to, to allocate renewable energy to different, uh, city districts and, uh, try to get as much renewable, uh, electricity production, uh, as we can in city districts itself. So that's a very interesting, uh, project. It's, uh, finalized already, but, uh, we have one going on now called Be Flexible also, that is really focusing on the flexibility perspective of the energy system would be really interesting to follow that project.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:16:49 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And we'll, we'll try to also link to these in the show notes. Of course. Um, and, and what kind of partnerships do you usually work with? Like you work together with the municipalities, of course, um, but what other kind of partnerships do you usually form?
Ellen Corke 00:17:07 Yeah, well, it's often the more, uh, drop helix, uh, structure that we try to form, of course. So we can be both, uh, a tech, uh, I mean a solution owner, but we're also like the system operator. So, uh, we always try to cooperate, uh, or almost always to a region or a municipality, but, uh, then also universities, of course, and we have really good experience of working with the Danish Technical University, for example. And so that is, uh, one, and then there are a lot of networks that we work with as well. I mean, who gather a lot of smaller companies that can, uh, use our solutions or be a solution owner themselves into projects. So,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:17:57 Yeah. Absolutely. Um, yeah, thanks for, thanks for telling us more, more details on that. Um, Rikke, I, I know that you work a lot in kind of this built environment in Greater Copenhagen, and Ellen touched on this as well. Of course, this is related to the energy transition and so many other aspects that are going on. Can you speak a little bit about where you see the future of the built environment headed in Greater Copenhagen?
Rikke Petersen 00:18:21 Yes, I, I, I strongly believe, and I also hope so, that, uh, that the greater Copenhagen will be the region that you will think of when you think green transition are front runners, and that we can kind of be the place to be if you want to be ahead of the others, or if you want to learn, so that there's so much going on here. And, and we are front runners in many ways, and I think that would have a pull effect on many companies. So they wanna be here to learn, or maybe they have something new to bring to the market where there's a lot of activity around a certain, a certain business area. So, so, and there's also a lot of challenges here, but I, I think the industry is very brave and we are building circular, we are taking, um, we are just transforming more and not building a lot of new things.
Rikke Petersen 00:19:13 So, so things are just, I think that's also a stronghold of the region that, uh, we, we do things, we don't wait, we just do it. Sometimes people think it's naive, but, uh, we just need to move. And there are new regulations in Denmark, uh, about, uh, L C a analysis and measuring the CO2 emissions, and you see really things going very fast at the moment. So the market is transforming, and a lot of other countries are looking to the north. It's, it goes for the whole of Nordic, you can say, building very sustainable and with Booth with new materials and testing out, and it's, but there's speed in society, and that's what I really like, and that's what you can hear also from the world. Whoa, you're, you're, you. It's so fast. Things are going fast in, in, in the Nordics or in, in the region here.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:20:02 Yeah. Yeah. I, I hear that often as well. What, um, maybe what kind of companies do you think are needed in Greater Copenhagen to really support that and make things move even faster and really get, um, more of these innovations into, into the public sector? What kind of companies do you think Greater Copenhagen needs?
Rikke Petersen 00:20:22 I don't think, uh, all of all of everything. So they, we need to, um, the ecosystem needs to be bigger because we, we, we actually do work together. So more architects, more technical companies. We just need to grow and we need to, to, to work together. And this is also something that I think we are good at here because we trust each other. We can actually work together, so mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, but also, also I think, um, yeah, the, the ecosystem ecosystem needs to grow and we need to reach out to, uh, to counterpart and to work, just to work together in order to overcome the challenges and, and, and, yeah.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:21:03 Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. Um, so Ellen, I'm wondering if you can, um, if you have any more <laugh> stories or antidotes or anything else like that to, to tell us about your experience working in Greater Copenhagen?
Ellen Corke 00:21:20 Yeah. Um, my, my memory's not that long, <laugh>, so I
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:21:26 Take
Ellen Corke 00:21:27 A really re recent, uh, example, uh, cuz uh, we are part of this, uh, innovation hub for intelligent and flexible energy systems that is, uh, led by Great Copenhagen, uh, and, uh, also by D T U and Danish Technical University. Uh, and, uh, we've been part of that and since it was initiated from, from Eon side, um, and it's taken some time and we have built relations quite some time, but it also, it opens up, uh, opportunities for us to, to get involved both Danish and, and the Swedish side. So last month we were actually, um, invited to be a challenge owner on this by design event, which I really would like to give a shout out to <laugh> because, uh, I mean, it was, uh, a really, uh, interesting and fun event where we as a challenge owner, uh, came with a challenge that we wanted to solutions to.
Ellen Corke 00:22:32 Uh, and during an afternoon, they gathered, uh, different designers from design, different design agencies, and, uh, put their heads around our challenges and try to get some ideas for solutions. And, uh, uh, I'm, I'm, I was pretty impressed on how far they could come up with the I far, they can, could actually come with a specific solution in only like two, three hours time. Uh, so I thought that was quite inspirational and, uh, I mean, we got the possibility by working together for, for some time, uh, and building relationships. So I think it's really important, even if you don't see something directly, uh, to just keep the, uh, the network going, um, yeah. And find opportunities along the way. Yeah.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:23:33 Yeah, absolutely. I agree. Um, Rikke, so you, uh, as, as most people I guess know, we've, um, actually bobble established in, in Copenhagen with your help as well. Um, and of course for, for us it's always interesting and I know for so many companies that are looking for, for opportunities and seeing, okay, how can our solutions meet the, the actual challenges within the market. Um, what, can you give us any insider tips on anything interesting coming in the future in Greater Copenhagen?
Rikke Petersen 00:24:06 Well, I can mention that Copenhagen is at the moment the world's capital of architecture. So there will be a huge event, uh, coming up in, in Copenhagen, the, uh, first week of July, the Uua, I U A I, uh, world, uh, Congress. So that's, that's really huge for, for the city, but also for, for the whole of the region because it's not only about, uh, Denmark and such, it's also about, uh, sustainable, uh, sustainable architecture and, and, and, and also to leave no one behind. So there's so much more, uh, related to that Congress. So that's a thing coming up. Um, what else? Um, yeah, uh, I think that's it. What I, I've, I've, I, I can think of as for now, you need to cut, have you come up with, cut that out,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:24:57 <laugh>, have you come up with anything else? We'll, we'll, uh, we'll, we'll put it in, in the open floor, so, yes. Um, yeah, maybe to you, Ellen, I'm wondering if, um, so, so this is really a smart city, um, podcast, right? We usually take a quite holistic approach and how we're looking at these different topics, of course. Um, right now we're talking more about, you know, the economic development of a region. But I'm wondering, um, what you think about, um, in terms of smart cities, how, uh, how you see greater Copenhagen's role on the international scale developing, um, what needs to happen in the region in your perspective, as far as the energy transition goes, et cetera, to meet our lofty climate goals. Um, can you make that connection a little bit with, um, maybe more of these smart city topics?
Ellen Corke 00:25:46 Yeah. Uh, well, I, I think it's, I mean, we really need to go from those lofty goals, as you say. I mean, there are some great ambitions in these regions as we touched. Um, but we really need to go from ambitions to action. We see that we need to go to implementation, uh, phase, uh, and, uh, uh, that's of course a bit tricky. And, uh, there are always, uh, some obstacles when you go to implementation, but I think, um, uh, we need to really, uh, pass those. I, I think I have a good example that I can share that, uh, adds onto the built environment that, uh, Rika also mentioned. It's, um, in the, in Malmo, we have this, uh, network that has been gathering around 200, uh, actors within the building sector. And it's a market driven network with ambition to, uh, uh, have a climate neutral, uh, building sector by 2030.
Ellen Corke 00:26:54 Uh, and if you think about that, because it's the entire chain, it's the entire value value chain, it's going to be climate neutral by 2030, that's a really ambitious goal. Uh, and, uh, on the way to 2030, uh, they have a goal to 2025 to have at least started one project that is climate neutral. So that's a lot of things happening within that network. And I think that network also is like a role model for how, how Sweden is going to take on the building sector. And perhaps that is something that other countries can look at as well, because we develop a lot of different ways to Cal calculate and how to look at different, uh, parts of the building phase, uh, circularity business models. I mean, there are so many things to dig into. And Eon as well has signed this, uh, into this, um, uh, agreement. And we also need to do, uh, climate neutral building project, uh, perhaps that could be, uh, a district heating, uh, part of the district heating grid or something. Um, so I think, um, that will be really interesting to see now into implementation phase, how that will, uh, actually work, uh, because those projects work. Uh, start now
Rikke Petersen 00:28:21 Ellen, are you talking about, uh, the L f
Ellen Corke 00:28:25 Mti? Yes or
Rikke Petersen 00:28:26 Yes, lm, I just, I <laugh> I discovered that, uh, network a couple weeks ago actually. And I think it's absolutely fantastic. And I, and that's just another example of how we work together. I just literally called them and now we work together and I was introducing a company last week towards the network and with a solution. And if it goes through, they will, this company will be offered to expose their project towards 200 or 250, uh, in that network. So it's just really, really, uh, it was such a good experience to, uh, to, to discover this network just on the other side of the bridge. Uh, uh, and, and, and that is true that you are really, really advanced also in terms of the, of the ambitions and moving the, the industries and on the swish sides, um, sides. So, yeah.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:29:14 Great. Yeah. Wonderful. Um, with that, I would love to, to also open the floor a little bit more now. Um, is there anything else that we didn't touch on that you think it's really important for our listeners to know about Greater Copenhagen or the energy transition or any of the other topics that we, we touched on or maybe didn't touch on today? Um, do you have anything that in, in your mind that you really wanna get out there, or any questions for each other?
Rikke Petersen 00:29:40 <laugh>, I, I, I think I can also add that, um, the companies coming here, uh, I think they also come because it's is actually very easy to do business, um, in, in, in, not only in this region, but in the Nordics. Uh, there's a higher degree of digitalization. So it's just very easy to start up a company and to get started in, in the society also because we have very flat hierarchs. You can call anyone or you can get in touch with people very easily. So I think that's, it's a society with a lot of trust and very little corruption, and it just, um, um, is attractive for many companies also, that we have this work life balance. You don't work all the time, you also have a family. So there's a, there's a good balance between your professional life and your, your family life. And I also think in terms of talent, that we can actually, even though there's a lack of talent in society in general, generally speaking, but I think there's, um, a lot of talent in, in, in the region also due to the different universities we have on the size, on the Danish size. Um, but in general, I think there's a lot of talent and in particularly within green transition and, and green industries. Um, so yeah, just to be mentioned <laugh>.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:30:58 Yeah, absolutely. We've definitely experienced that too. The, this, this ease of working and, um, getting connected the ecosystem of Copenhagen is, is really incredible. So, um, what about you, Ellen? Do you have any questions, Forke, or anything else that you really want to put out there about, about the work that you do?
Ellen Corke 00:31:18 Yeah, well, uh, something that, uh, I really think quite a lot about is that, um, I think it's really important that we don't try to get, uh, through this situation we are in, uh, by just adding technical solutions. I mean, I think it's really important to try to cooperate smarter and, uh, uh, try to use our resources wisely. Uh, perhaps it's not, uh, a battery that is the answer to the question. Perhaps it is using, uh, less power capacity at certain time points. Uh, you can do it in another way than adding new technical equipment. So I think it's important to really get to the bottom of saving power capacity and saving, uh, energy. And, uh, I mean in that, uh, in that context, um, I also, before when I worked at the city of Malama, I worked a lot with industrial urban symbiosis. And within that, I actually had a question tarique because, um, uh, we worked quite a lot trying to, uh, understand how we could attract certain companies or businesses depending on which resources they had available. I mean, if they have certain resources, they could a, actually fit better into the business, flora or mamma, for example. And I was, uh, curious about if, if they do anything in that area, in the, on the Copenhagen side, trying to get like this perfect mixture of companies that could actually be more resource efficient together and create synergies between them.
Rikke Petersen 00:33:05 And there's a beauty example of that, uh, in Lumbo, a little bit outside of Copenhagen actually, where you have a symbiosis, uh, companies sharing energy, companies sharing all they can, all all all kind of energy related sources. They share that and, and it's big industry, so it's like Northern Nordis and, and other companies like that. So that's, that's, uh, something that we use as a showcase for a lot of international guests. We will go there and show them how you can do, um, energy sharing and how you see, uh, industries working together, um, in order to save costs, save energy, and, and in order to also to act more climate climate, um, in order in, in, in, in line with the climate, uh, requesting and climate targets. So yeah, lumbo, symbiosis. <laugh>, yeah, that's really a small study, but
Ellen Corke 00:33:59 Example. Yeah,
Rikke Petersen 00:34:00 Yeah, yeah.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:34:01 Really great example. So with that then I'll basically get onto, uh, the, the fun segment now. Um, so I hope you're ready. It's one of my favorite segments. It's called Roll With the Punches, roll with the punches, answer this or that questions quickly, and with your first instincts. So actually I'm, um, since there's two of you, um, I will ask a question, uh, this or that question, and then Rikke, you'll answer first, and then Ellen, you answer directly afterwards. Either you agree with her or you don't agree with her. So <laugh>, um, so are you ready? Yes. <laugh>, Ellen's not sure yet, but she, she, you'll get
Rikke Petersen 00:34:48 It. You'll get it.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:34:48 Don't worry. Um, good <laugh>, Ricky. This one I did just for you. Um, if Copenhagen were an animal, would it be a dolphin or a lion? <laugh>. A dolphin <laugh> Ellen?
Ellen Corke 00:35:04 No. Then I say lion <laugh>.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:35:07 If, if you don't know what that reference is to go listen to the first episode. So, um, iPhone. iPhone or Android.
Rikke Petersen 00:35:16 IPhone.
Ellen Corke 00:35:17 IPhone.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:35:18 Green roofs or vertical gardens?
Rikke Petersen 00:35:22 Green roofs,
Ellen Corke 00:35:25 Yeah. Green roof. Yeah.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:35:27 Net zero energy retrofitting or new build net. Net zero energy buildings.
Rikke Petersen 00:35:34 The first one.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:35:36 <laugh>,
Ellen Corke 00:35:36 Retrofit. Yeah. Retrofits. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:35:37 Mm-hmm. <affirmative> regions or cities? <laugh>
Rikke Petersen 00:35:43 Regions.
Ellen Corke 00:35:45 Cities. <laugh>,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:35:48 Sweden or Denmark? <laugh>.
Rikke Petersen 00:35:51 Sweden.
Ellen Corke 00:35:53 Denmark,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:35:53 Yeah. Oh, you picked the opposites <laugh> that I thought you would. Oh, good. Uh, would you like to explain any of your answers? Um, uh, the, the green roofs you both, uh, chose, right.
Ellen Corke 00:36:08 Well, I wanted to pick both actually. I think anything green, uh, in the city is, uh, positive. Uh, more trees, more green roofs, more vertical gardens. I think everything is needed. So
Rikke Petersen 00:36:22 Yeah, you can say that's needed. If you want to live, I need, we need to live closer to our value chain of food. We need to have food production closer to the cities. So we need vertical farming, but we also need the green roofs, so it's all needed if you want to.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:36:37 Yeah, absolutely. It's just my, um, my, my trick making you choose. Um, but oftentimes it's both I know is the real answer. Yeah. Um, yeah, with the retrofitting, I guess it's, um, better to build from the old that's already there, right? To improve the old than to put a lot of new materials into a building. Is that where your, your mind is at?
Ellen Corke 00:37:01 Yeah. And there are so many, uh, buildings, uh, that needs to be retrofitted. I mean, there's so many huge areas from the sixties, seventies, uh, that really could be perfect for retrofitting. Uh, yeah.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:37:18 Yeah. And the other, the other one that you disagreed on was the regions or cities <laugh>.
Ellen Corke 00:37:25 Yeah. That's also like a both, but I love
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:37:27 Cities,
Ellen Corke 00:37:28 So you can
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:37:29 Have one without the other, right, <laugh>. Yeah. But yeah, absolutely.
Rikke Petersen 00:37:33 But I was also, I was driving around in the region yesterday, so I was, you know, uh, it was so beautiful and so nice, so <laugh>. Yeah. That was why, yeah. There's so much more than a city is also, and, and the region or the outskirts can offer something completely ill than, than
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:37:50 The cities are. Yeah, I'm a big, um, yeah, I'm a big, uh, um, um, I really like to, to talk about regions when we talk about cities. So we say smart cities, obviously, cuz it's kind of the easiest terminology, but I always try and add regions and municipalities and towns, and how do we connect better the, the smaller towns with the, with the bigger cities. Um, I always like to include them in the conversation, so, um, agreed there. So I think we're all in agreement just with different answers. So <laugh>, um, good. So now we're at the very last question. It's a question that we ask every single guest. Re I'm, I'm, um, I'm curious to hear how we can compare your answers from last time. Um, uh, would you like to go first? It's the question to you, what is a smart city?
Rikke Petersen 00:38:38 Um, yes. I, i, I really can't remember what I answered the last time, but I think it's something with, you know, optimization of city functions in terms of infrastructure, in terms of transport, uh, but any other functions literally. And, and while you also improve the quality of life for, for the citizens and, uh, by, by using technologies and data. So yeah, that's my definition of, of a smart city.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:39:06 Yeah. Very good. Ellen, what do you think? Can you expand on it?
Ellen Corke 00:39:11 Yeah, well I of course agree with, uh, with Ricky, but also I would add a keyword and that is, uh, simple cuz I think it's, I smart city should be simple to live in. It should be simple to, to make sustainable choices to move. And it should be simple if you are an eight year old or an 80 year old. So too much digital, uh, solutions perhaps can be difficult for some people. So I think, I mean, in Malmo we have this saying that, uh, um, it should be easy to, uh, to do the right thing or to make, uh, wise, uh, choices. It sounds better in Swedish <laugh>, but uh, it, I think it sounds set up quite well. I mean, it should be easy, effortless to, to live in a city and to make smart choices. I think that is a smart city.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:40:10 Very good answer to both of you. So with that, I won't, uh, keep you any longer. Thank you for a really lovely episode. Um, and for all of your knowledge on, on, on these, uh, subject topics and also on the region, um, Rika, I'm wondering when your next, uh, your third guest visit will be. Um, but until then, <laugh>, thank you both very much. It's been a pleasure.
Rikke Petersen 00:40:33 Thank you very much. Thank you. It's been a pleasure.
Ellen Corke 00:40:35 Yeah, truly pleasure, pleasure. Thank you
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:40:38 <laugh>. And to all of our listeners, don't forget, you can always create a free account on bable-smartcities.eu and you can find out more about all different kinds of projects going on in other regions and Greater Copenhagen Solutions implementations and more. Thank you all for listening. I'll see you at the next stop on the journey to a better urban life.
