Episode Transcript
[00:00:03] Gretel Schaj: Welcome to Smart in the City, the BABLE Podcast. In this special episode, recorded live at the Change Now Summit in Paris, we are diving into our city's journey towards climate action and what it takes to lead change at the city level.
I'm joined today by someone right on the front lines of urban climate action, Marin Zachar, member of the Climate Office of the city of Bratislava. Marian, welcome to and it's really great to have you here.
[00:00:30] Marian Zachar: Thank you very much for having me.
[00:00:32] Gretel Schaj: So let's start with an unusual way for this conversation and I would love to hear what you think about if Bratislava were an animal, which animal would it be and why?
[00:00:45] Marian Zachar: So I would say what an animal would be. The Climate Office of Bratislava. So it would be a honey badger. Because the honey badger, you know, it's kind of not a very popular animal, but it's very resilient and able to do anything and survive in any circumstances. So that would be the one for Climate Office of Bratislav.
[00:01:07] Gretel Schaj: I love that definition and I think it matches very well what the work you're trying to do. So tell us more, what's your background and what led you to your current role?
[00:01:18] Marian Zachar: So my background goes to international relations and political science. So the high school. I always wanted to change the world and have a huge impact. So I thought, okay, the easiest way to do it is obviously through international relations, diplomacy.
I've spent some time in Paris studying, spent some time at the Czech Embassy in Paris to figure out maybe that's not the right thing to do for me. Then I continued with rather national politics.
I was involved at national Parliament to some extent, then the Ministry of Education. Amazing impact, but maybe not my cup of tea neither. But at that place I realized education is the field where you can have tremendous impact on people's lives. So overall, if you change someone's life, it's extremely important for them and basically you help them achieve their dreams. So it was the education for me, for more than a decade, that was the field where I wanted to change the world, as someone would like to say. And I helped to co found two organizations, one called Gleeve, focusing on development of talented youth in Slovakia. And then the second one called the Duke of Edinburgh Award, which is a global program originated in uk, founded by the Duke of Edinburgh, the former late husband of the Queen. And basically I realized at some point that helping young people is extremely important for them, but we need to have some planet or somewhere where we can help them actually. So I figured out the urgency of the climate that we are, you know, that is changing pretty fast is even more urgent problem than the education or how young people live their lives. And I switched basically almost three years ago to climate.
[00:03:08] Gretel Schaj: That's fascinating.
[00:03:09] Marian Zachar: And overall, after moving to private sector, I ended up in the city. While basically we were the first with two other colleagues, we were the first people who actually started the climate office together in November 2023.
[00:03:25] Gretel Schaj: That's very interesting. I think it also reflects that there is not just only one path towards climate neutrality and the people who are leading that transition and that I think it's also the richness. What brings richness to this process.
Maybe then also for context, what does decarbonization mean for Bratislava and what is your role in driving that agenda forward?
[00:03:50] Marian Zachar: So I will go up one level, basically what climate change means for Bratislava. So as you know, in other European cities, for people living in Bratislava, it means, you know, you have higher temperature during summer, so people are, you know, stranded in their apartments without, you know, air conditioning. It's quite difficult to survive some, some days and some weeks during the summer, or you have, you know, flash floods that, you know, basically halts the breathing of a city for a while. And, and that's something that everybody sees right now. So that's what it means, the climate change for people of Bratislava. And the city realizes that it's their decision to do something with it, not only to wait for, you know, country level or European Union or someone else to do their job. And we realize at the city that it's our responsibility to do something with it, not only in terms of adaptation, but as well, mitigation, the climate change. So that's what it means for the people of Bratislava and for the leadership of the city and climate office as well. And what does it mean? Actually we are building on the long term efforts of the current mayor in adaptation measures, planting trees, refurbishment of parks that we have in Bratislava and other refurbishment of public places as such in Bratislava. And as well, we are ramping up the activities that have already been done in the sustainable transportation. So there's been a lot of things happening, but we are now focusing more within the climate plan that we presented Last year in April 2024 on mitigation measures and especially in the energy sector. So what's new after we came to the to the city of Bratislava is that instead of focusing only in these areas, that has been, you know, quite a big priority for current mayor for several years, adaptation and public transportation. We are as well focusing on the energy sector, especially on our buildings that we own. So we Have a huge portfolio of city owned buildings. We are focusing there our energy and then as well in other energy, energy related activities, for example, like installation of PV panels and so on. There are 65 measures in the climate plan, so I won't go on and speak about it too much time, but that what means. So basically realizing there's been things that have been done, adaptation, transportation, ramping up in the energy sector and basically trying to guide the leadership of the city in this area so that we can inspire others to join the effort. Because you know, fighting the climate change is not possible just with one organization, one person or one unit to change it, how it works at the city of Bratislava. But we are trying to build the efforts and coalitions in order to achieve those decarbonization targets that we have, which actually mean by 2030 we would like to reduce the emissions, the carbon emissions by 55% from the baseline of 2005.
[00:06:51] Gretel Schaj: And that is a major target. And you spoke about the, about the complexity of climate change. So it requires to take actions in so many different areas. You mentioned that your plan has about 60 measures or so. So maybe what are the priorities that you are tackling at the moment and how do you prioritize them?
Just also to share some advice on this matter for those that are starting to develop their own climate plans.
[00:07:25] Marian Zachar: So there are several priorities. From the 65 action points we have, there are 10 huge priorities for the city. I will not list all of them, but for the city that has, especially for our team, that we can actually influence the outcome of some actions is obviously the setup of the energy management system, a portfolio of all citywide buildings, installation of the renewable sources of energy, for example, there are two specific priorities. We have specific measurable, smart targets for both of them and all the action points. But for the question about how we've done the prioritization, quite simple.
What is feasible? Can we actually do this? Within the time frame of the climate plan is one thing. The second one, the scale of impact, right? If we have something that is feasible, we have the decision power to actually do the program and take the decision in this area, we can finance it. And as well we can have significant impact in reducing, for example, the emissions, because that's one of the targets as well. There are some targets, for example, in adaptation to the risks that are rising for city of Bratislava in the two areas that I mentioned that people see.
And for example, whether, you know, whether we are able to build coalitions around the target as well. So these are the, you know, the way, how we or the criteria we use for listing all the priorities, I'll go potentially beyond the first two I mentioned. They're one big priority for us that we are trying to tackle and we are right now starting to work on it quite intensively, which is heating as well. For example, heating is responsible for 40% of carbon emissions in Bratislava and almost everywhere in any urban setting. And we are trying to work on that as a priority as well. For example, those are the three big ones that we are working right now. And we have responsibility to deliver the results.
[00:09:22] Gretel Schaj: Right. So for everyone who is listening and is in the planning journey, feasibility, substantial impact are key aspects that they need to assess, to prioritize. Because we know there is a lot that could be done, it could be endless, it could fill the agenda of decades for us to come. So it's really important that to start with, what will make a difference now, where collisions could be built and where it's feasible to act. And I think that's a very good point.
[00:09:51] Marian Zachar: And in terms of impact, maybe I'll add what it actually means, like if we have the target to actually reach 55% reduction. So we really need to see and understand will this action lead us to the reduction not only yes, potentially, maybe in the future, or we don't know, but we really need to be sure that the measure we are implementing, this has the potential to reach this kind of reduction. Because otherwise, you know, it's not a plan, it's just a fairytale, Mickey Mouse plan.
[00:10:17] Gretel Schaj: Yeah, yeah. And you need to deliver on results. And I think that's also something that it's important in everyone's agenda in the public sector, maybe to bring this to the ground. Could you share an example of an innovative project or a partnership that you're working on at the moment?
[00:10:33] Marian Zachar: We have launched in January, interesting form of cooperation between the city and the companies that are working within Bratislava. What does it mean? Actually we try to set up the cooperation that will, at the end of the day, help us all reach the climate targets that we've set up for Bratislava. And in practice it means basically reducing the energy intensity of the buildings that the, the companies that operate in Bratislava that reach that reduction of energy, energy need for those buildings. It's called Mayor of Bratislava Climate Challenge. And it's a program that's been inspired by the work that's been done in other cities like New York, London. And we know that if we want to reach the target of reduction of 55%, then the city itself has only direct influence over 11% of those emissions. So we need to work all together to actually reach those targets. And we started with the city owned buildings and we are doing our own efforts in refurbishment, energy measures and so on. And we thought that, okay, if this is something that's happening at city level, let's create a cooperation and partnership with the companies that are already doing something like this and would like to showcase or potentially even go further beyond their current commitments and current actions to show others, yes, this is something that can be done. Yes, we can, for example, reduce the consumption of natural gas that is used for heating, for example, and use some renewable sources of energy even for heating. Because it's something that can be done, we can showcase. These are companies that are doing such things and might be successful in doing this as well. Not only in order to, you know, just do some climate action, but for, in order to save money. Because these kind of measures actually brings money on the table by saving energy costs in the long run and as well help basically become more resilient because you are not, you know, you don't need any, any, I'd call it the external supplier, but you are, you are having your own energy at your building because you are using, for example, the heat from the, from the water that's below of your building. So that's something more that helps build the resilience of those buildings and the companies that own them.
[00:12:51] Gretel Schaj: Right. And how do you manage that relation or have you set up a special mechanism, office, alliance, partnership to work with these organizations that formal, informal, what are your thoughts on that and the current action?
[00:13:09] Marian Zachar: So the way it operates is basically legally, it's a memorandum of understanding. So legally it's just like eight page memorandum that we agreed to cooperate within this, within this climate challenge. But we declared that this long term program, this long term cooperation through which we would like to achieve significant energy savings at the tertiary buildings in the language of the climate change and as well, in order to achieve significant uptake of the renewable sources of energy. So these are the two main targets that are included in the challenge. And basically what we try to do is to highlight those companies. There are two types of companies that are participating in the pilot. One is the retailers. So the companies that are selling products, companies like Tesco and so on, and the asset managers, companies that own huge office buildings and they're operating those buildings as well. So not the developers, but the companies are actually owning the huge office or retail buildings. And we know that it's their interest to actually, you know, reduce the energy Consumption, it's not something that goes completely against interest. It goes completely in line with their interests. So we are not trying to, you know, do something that doesn't make sense for them, but we would like to maybe potentially accelerate those efforts, especially the role of the cities to highlight those efforts and to showcase to others that yes, these things make sense. They're economically logical and they have as well external impact, which is the, you know, they're helping to mitigate the climate change. And as well they can, they can help motivate others, potentially smaller companies, because right now there are, you know, more bigger and multinational companies that are participating, showcase others that even, you know, investment, for example, for Green roof, it might save you some energy costs, for example. And this is the way how we would like to work with those companies, highlight them, showcase and then motivate others to do meaningful climate action as well through this kind of role modeling.
[00:15:19] Gretel Schaj: Yeah, not a small task. And I think it's very important the work that you are doing and building those relationships, showing the good cases. So you spoke about how you're engaging with the private sector and another critical stakeholder, especially also if we talk about buildings are citizens, residents. So how do you make then the decarbonization real for citizens in Bratislava?
[00:15:48] Marian Zachar: So even the companies are living in Bratislava. So they're companies are made of people. So what do we hope to do even through this kind of program? We hope that there will be spillover effect not only for smaller and other companies, but as well to the people to see that, okay, if some companies, you know, decoupling from use of natural gas, for example, and replacing with water to water heat pump, and they are doing it and they are having substantial energy savings and the return investment is not 20 years, but maybe seven, eight, five years, it might make them decide that, okay, this is something I would like to do and role of the city in that case would be helping them understand how it can be done and potentially, you know, having some form of education programs or some form of interaction with the citizens to showcase them how they can do those changes on their own. So that's one thing. And second one, obviously I mentioned heating before and is something that will have in the long run substantial impact on the citizens of Bratislava. There are some source of heating obviously in the Bratislava that is used right now and in the long run, not only from perspective of Climate Office of Bratislava, but from the EU regulation level that mandates how the heating should behave from the perspective of emissions in long run, by 2050, this would have substantial impact on the quality of life of people, not only from the perspective of potentially the costs in long run, but as well from the perspective of quality of air and so on. So this is something that we would like to bring to the discussion and spotlight of the climate and decarbonization, even for citizens.
[00:17:34] Gretel Schaj: Right. And I think it's a process where you are learning. The climate office is rather new in Bratislava. So you also are doing and exploring this path towards what works and what works in your context.
Let's also talk about ambitions and especially the European goal for the mission cities to be climate neutral by 2030. But let me play the devil's advocate here. 2030 is less than five years away. So given where more cities stand today, is that goal realistic?
[00:18:11] Marian Zachar: It's a great ambition. It's ambition that needs to be fulfilled at some point by 2030.
It's something that would not be achieved at the majority of the EU cities. And we need to be realistic in, you know, saying things as they are. And I think that it needs to be achieved not only for the sake of, you know, planet and, you know, environmental targets and climate targets, but for the sake of the security, basically. So it's not something that derives only from the, from the ambition to achieve, you know, Paris Accords or so on, but we need to be aware that this is like the economic potential, potentially potential for economic development of Europe. So it's not something that will only influence how we live and whether we are able to live in the cities and, you know, not to basically suffocate in the apartments that are too hot, but as well, about like, can we actually, you know, economically boom as we have boomed for last hundreds of years, can we continue that development? This is the opportunity through which we can actually achieve this. So I think going back to your question, it's extremely important not only from climate perspective, but from economic perspective, security perspective. But the question is when we'll be able to actually achieve it. And that's something we need to be transparent about and you know, be very cautious about, you know, not overselling something, but saying the things as they are, because that's how you build a transparency and that's how you build the trust between the people and, you know, the public representatives or even private sector, for example, as we say, with the climate challenge and with companies that we cooperate with. So yes, but 2030, it's extremely optimistic, I would say hardly realistic. And at some point we will still need to achieve that. And that's what we all stand for and we want to Achieve at some point.
[00:20:18] Gretel Schaj: Right. And I think maybe what these intermediate goals also help is to not feel like, well, we have time until 2050, because we probably run out of the luxury of time, so the fastest we can move, the better. But I think it's a very good point, the one you raised on how do we make sure that this is responding to the climate transition needs, but also it speaks also to economic development and how it really is a transformation of the way we operate and the society and the different systems that make our cities.
So thanks for sharing that perspective.
With that, I would like to move to another segment which is called trial and error. And we like to go through a specific case situation where something went wrong, mistakes were made along the way, and you probably learned something about it. Could you share one case, one story?
[00:21:20] Marian Zachar: So for one and a half year that the climate office was operating, we don't have that many stories, direct stories from our own, because, you know, most of the things are just starting, right? Because we've just published the climate plan last year. So it's not our direct experience with this, but obviously there are some experiences in, you know, in planning, in, you know, deciding what kind of measure actually you would like to do. So, you know, historically, obviously there were some, for example, refurbishments of parks and so on that should have had some adaptation measures included, but didn't, because, you know, throughout the process that was not priority. And at some point, you know, maybe six or seven years ago, nobody thought about, okay, we need to have those actions included, or those parts of the refurbishment, for example, included, because that was not the priority. You know, nobody was speaking that much about the topic, especially not in Slovakia. And right now when it's already been, you know, implemented, it seems like, guys, you're forgetting about something. But no, but at the time, you know, when the project was starting, nobody, you know, that was not a priority, that was not the topic. So that's something that we need to realize that even for long term planning, you need to realize the targets that you are trying to achieve through some measure, even if it's parks or public spaces, they need to include those sustainability outcomes at the end of the day, whether they are for adaptation measures or mitigation measures. But you know, obviously for public space is always about the adaptation measures. So we need to be aware that, yes, for long term planning, we need to include all those targets even now, even if it's going to be constructed in 10 years. And we need to be really visionary in terms of what's possible. And that's something we try to do as well with the new developments, for example, and trying to have discussion with the developers about what can we actually do right now. So it will have impact in next 20 to 30 years. And have the discussion right now because that's now the planning stages for most of the new developments that are applied for Bratislava for next 20, 30 years. And we try to, you know, have the discussion and clearly state what is needed in terms of outcomes for those new developments so that we would, you know, not, you know, try to try to manage it. When construction is already in planes and you have all the machinery, they're trying to do everything and at the time, you know, it's impossible to actually, you know, change those designs. So that's the reason why and that's the learning out of it that we, okay, we learned on small scale, okay, we need to plan ahead. And now we're trying to bring this, you know, long term thinking to discussion with developers, for example.
[00:24:08] Gretel Schaj: I think that's such an important point, this long term, this foresight in policy planning and these discussions that sometimes is overlooked when planning for today or having the discussions for today, but is so critical for the future to also prevent other mistakes.
One last question, and this is a question that we ask every guest to you. What is a smart city?
[00:24:39] Marian Zachar: Smart city, just for me, the city that understand the needs of the people in a way that the responsiveness to that need is as short as possible. So if there is some need that has risen at the city level, you know, people would not be, you know, fulfilled with that need in 20 years, but much shorter.
That's how I see what it actually means to be smart.
[00:25:12] Gretel Schaj: Thank you very much for joining us today, Marian. Thanks also to ChangeNow for making the recording of this episode possible here in Paris. And to all of our listeners, don't forget, you can always create a free account on Bubble SmartCTS EU to find out more about smart city projects, solutions and implementations. Thank you very much.
[00:25:32] Marian Zachar: Thank you.
[00:25:42] Gretel Schaj: Thank you.
