Episode Transcript
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:00:06 Welcome to Smart in the City, the BABLE Podcast where we bring together top actors in the smart city arena, sparking dialogues and interactions around the stakeholders and themes most prevalent for today's citizens and tomorrow's generations. I am your host, Tamlyn Shimizu, and I hope you'll enjoy this episode and gain knowledge and connections to accelerate the change for a better urban life.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:00:31 Smart in the City is brought to you by BABLE Smart Cities. We enable processes from research and strategy development to co-creation and implementation. To learn more about us, please visit the BABLE platform at bable-smartcities.eu.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:00:45 So we are live at the Urban Future Conference back with another great episode for with you today. Um, so we're sitting Stuttgart, Germany in a heat wave, also my di at, um, and I've had the opportunity already to meet with many urban stakeholders at this fantastic event. So big thank you to Urban Future for allowing us to be media partners and, uh, getting to talk to great stakeholders. One of those is the, uh, lovely gentleman sitting across from me right now. I have the pleasure of introducing you to Oriol Estela Barnet. Um, he's the general coordinator of the Metropolitan Strategic Plan Association of Barcelona, or otherwise known as PEMB. Welcome onto the show.
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:01:26 Thank you very much for inviting me,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:01:28 <laugh>. Yeah, absolutely. It's my pleasure. Um, so you, oh, I also mentioned this title, but I also understand that you are doing things in the Barcelona Neighborhood plan, the scientific board of the Barcelona Innovation Foundation and other things. So you, you must be a busy, a busy man. <laugh> <laugh>.
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:01:46 Well, no, these are responsibilities that come along with the, the other titles. So as a representative of the Metropolitan Strategic Plan, I have to be in other boards and in other, uh, places. Yeah, it's,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:01:57 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Um, so usually I say that we warm up with a question, but at urban future, when it's been so hot, I've been saying cooling down <laugh>. Um, so let's do a little cool down question. Um, so, uh, since I guess you just landed in Stuttgart last night or yesterday, but so far, what do you think are the biggest differences and biggest commonalities between Stuttgart and Barcelona?
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:02:23 Oh, wow. <laugh>. Yeah. The first thing is that, uh, I've been surprised not to find a, uh, a city center, an old city center like we have, for instance, in Barcelona, in other, in other cities. I, I suppose that it's due to history and yes, <laugh> and events that happened in this, in this part of the world. But, uh, yeah. Um, this is one thing that trying to find the city center is, is not easy if you only look to the buildings. And, uh, the other one, of course, is size, uh, because the, the airport is, is, is very close to the city. You have the metro going there, and, and, and in the, in the route from the, uh, airport to the city center, you have a lot of landscapes. Different landscapes. No, you have an industrial one, and I think it's a trade fair also. Yeah. Near the airport. But then you have, you have forest, and you go, you go, uh, so under, and then you go, you go up and it, yeah, it's a, it's a very nice, uh, a very nice trip from the, the airport city, from the airport, the city. Yeah. And it looks like a, like, uh, you know, like a human city, you know, I think I've seen a lot of, uh, of bicycles and, uh, well, I think it's a nice city. I don't know it very much <laugh>, but, uh,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:03:40 Is it your first time here? Yeah, it's my first time. Okay. Well, welcome, welcome. Um, really glad to have you. Yeah. You know, nobody says that Chukar really is the most beautiful city, or may might not be well as well known as the Barcelonas, but I think it has a very high livability as a couple of the points that you just mentioned, so mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, yeah, absolutely. So, I want to dig into your background now. Give, give the people all your, uh, wealth of knowledge on where did you come from, um, how did you get here? I understand you have a background as an eco economist and a geographer. Um, can you talk a little bit about that?
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:04:14 Well, I, uh, first I had my degree in e in economics, uh, but I immediately, I started working in a consultancy firm, uh, that work, uh, in different, uh, places in Spain, different cities. I work first in Andalusia and gal Lithia. And so, and, uh, I was involved in this field of the local economic development that I never heard about in the <laugh> in the university. And, uh, I found exciting, you know, how to help, uh, cities, how to, how to help places to thrive, to, to develop, to, to have more economic activity and more, of course, uh, uh, quality of life for, for the citizens. So I started, uh, working on local strategic development plans and local economic development plans. Uh, back in, this was in 95. And, uh, and after 10 years working, uh, working on the, on the consultancy in the private consultancy, but for local governments, I, uh, started working at the Barcelona Provincial Council. That, uh, covers 311 municipalities. Uh, one of them is the city o of Barcelona. But, uh, in this 300 and municipalities, you can find rural, uh, municipalities as well. Uh, the, the, the smallest one in terms of inhabitants has 28 inhabitants. So it's a very 28
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:05:37 <laugh>. Yeah.
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:05:37 28, not 28,000, no, no, 28. And, uh, and this is a, for me, it has been, it has been a, a magnificent school. It's, it's amazing school of learning about the, the erritory now, the differences, the urban, the rural, and so on. And that's the reason that I decided then to become geographer, because I'm an economist, but I don't have, I don't know about territory and to work, uh, in my position now, I define myself as a, a professional of, uh, local economic development. And I think that the combination of economy, uh, uh, economics and geography, it's, it's, uh, perfect now. And it's, um, of anthropology or maybe some of, uh, I don't know, other fields, uh, of expertise, but, uh, knowledge. But, uh, for me, this combination has worked. And then in 2016, I became a civil servant for the Provincial Council of Barcelona, and I was working as a head of the local economic strategies, uh, at that time. But in, in 2016, they asked me, they appoint me to the position of, uh, the general coordinator of the Metropolitan Strategic Plan, that it, it was one of the places that I thought that, where will I retire? Uh, and one of the two places that I had in mind was the Metropolitan Strategic Plan, because I said, I, I, I want to apply all my wisdom, uh, in my own city and in my own, uh, metropolitan region, but I had the opportunity to do this. Uh,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:07:03 Incredible. So this is it for you? This is the, this is the end game. Yeah. Well,
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:07:08 I don't know, <laugh>, I, I have a lot of things to do, and maybe I'm, they not only in the metropolitan region of Barcelona, but of course it's a, a landmark for me to, to, to be part of this. Yeah.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:07:20 Incredible journey. Uh, I love to hear about that. And can you now talk about what, what does it mean to be general coordinator? Um, what do you do?
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:07:28 Uh, yeah. Was, uh, right now after, uh, seven years, uh, now I, I, I am managing, uh, an amazing team of, uh, about 15 people that, uh, we have been working together, especially for the last four years, uh, building this metropolitan commitment, 2030, the new strategic plan for the metropolitan region of Barcelona. And, uh, we have created a, a, a team that, uh, is able to facilitate, uh, to incubate projects, to, uh, it's, we are like a platform for co cooperation. I think that it's one of the most wonderful things that you can do, and, uh, the most useful things that you can do when you work for the city, you know, for the future of your city or of your metropolitan area or, or region. That is how to make all the stakeholders and all the actors and all the organizations and all the people that is doing good things for the future, uh, to collaborate, to, to work together, and, uh, to find new ways of, uh, or new alliances. Uh, unexpected Unal alliances, uh, says sometimes no with organizations that never met, but, uh, you are able to put them in contact and do to make them see that what you are doing is, uh, is, uh, is, is something that can match with, uh, others are doing. And, uh, yeah, that is my, uh, my order right now. Well, these days I am explaining it this a lot because the strategic plan is very new. So I am like a public relations now for the, the strategic one,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:08:55 Doing a lot of communications. Yeah. Other podcasts, maybe <laugh>
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:08:59 And, uh, conferences. And so, but the most important thing is, is, is to pilot this, this team, uh, that, uh, I think that is an amazing thing that can, can do extraordinary things in terms of, uh, building alliances and building cooperation.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:09:14 I love that. I actually have a session just after this on unlikely partnerships mm-hmm. <affirmative>, um, here that I'm doing together with Blocks Hub. Um, what I'm wondering if you can give an example of a, you, you mentioned an unlikely partnership. Um, is there an example you think of?
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:09:29 Well, the, the, the, the most typical example is one, this big institution know, for instance, we have in Barcelona, we have worked a lot in the food, uh, policies, uh, area, you know, the food strategy. And, uh, we had the, the, the, the main, uh, uh, market know, the, the, the, the wholesale market for the wholesale food market in Barcelona. That is, it's like a city itself. You know, it's a very big company. It's a public company, but of course it works with private operators. And, uh, and, uh, we, uh, there has been always a fight, uh, between, uh, the, the producers, no local producers, the small local producers with this big market, because this big market brings food from all over the world. And, uh, it was very difficult to, to, to make them sit in the same table and, and to talk about cooperation about, uh, uh, things to do, uh, together.
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:10:26 And, uh, and we achieved this goal, uh, a couple years ago, uh, we started working on a new project that, uh, means like building something like this, uh, wholesale food market, but, uh, the small scale and devoted to, uh, local producers. And, uh, when you see these results, you know, that, uh, the cooperation, uh, works because there's someone like, uh, our team is know that that's is, is there's an institution that is devoted to a cooperation and to make others, uh, work together. It works because, um, we always meet and, uh, and talk to each other or are part of different organizations or platforms that, uh, or network, you know, and, and, and chat about things are that we must do, but then everyone, uh, goes back home and has their their own businesses. If you have a, a team that is the, that it's role, it's main role is to make things happen. No, uh, we always say we, we started being 30 years ago, more than 30 years ago, a think tank, and now we are a think and make others do tank. Ah,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:11:36 I love
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:11:36 That. And if, if possible, thank, uh, think and do tank, but we are not that powerful as, uh, to do a lot of things. But, uh, what is more the most important thing is that we can make others do things. So
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:11:48 You're the one pushing and pulling Yeah. Uh, a lot of these pieces together. Right. Um, awesome. So I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about the biggest challenges that you think the metropolitan region are facing today. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>,
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:12:01 In our case, one of the biggest challenge. So we have different types of challenges. There is one challenge, challenge that is the governance challenge. So it's how to make this metropolitan region that is the real city for us, uh, to work and to have, uh, policies at this scale and projects at this scale. And as there, we don't have a government for this, uh, for this territory that covers more than 150 municipalities, 5 million inhabitants. Uh, we don't have the, the, the typical governance structures. We don't have a government, we don't have a budget. We don't have, uh, agencies at, at this scale, but we, in, in the process of, uh, of, of making the, the metropolitan, uh, commitment 2030, uh, we have identify a lot of, uh, several fields of action or several challenges that must be, uh, facing from this scale. Uh, and, uh, and, and that's, and that's what we, what we have been done all this time to identifying what makes sense to face from the metropolitan, uh, region and, uh, scale and what governance tools can, can, can we build bottom up in this case, because, uh, there will be no, uh, new, uh, government for this area.
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:13:17 But we ne need to build, uh, bottom up, uh, governance tools. And that's for us, is the, the, the most important challenge right now. Um, linked to this, there's another challenge that is in Spain. There is only one metropolitan area as an institution, a formal, uh, institution that is in Barcelona for the metropolitan area. Uh, so we don't have national policy supporting metropolitan policies. Oh, oh, wow. Because there's only one. So next, no, uh, and, uh, and now that we have national elections in, in Spain in July, we will have national elections. We are in a campaign right now to make the political parties that will be in the elections to think about metropolitan, uh, structure of the, of, of, uh, country like Spain, that we have big cities, Madrid, <inaudible>, Viva, et cetera. Uh, we need, uh, metropolitan, uh, governance tools in this case from top down.
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:14:13 So we have to match this. This is in terms of how to function in terms of the, the challenge for the society, of course, inequalities. We have, uh, so Barcelona is a success, uh, case. No, uh, it's a city that, uh, you can use as a, a, a, a model for several things. Now, since the Olympic Games in 1992, it was a, a second or 30 year city in the world. And now it's, uh, among the, uh, most important cities in the, in the world, in all the, you know, creativity, entrepreneurship, innovation, rankings and, and so, so and so forth. It, it was impossible to think, uh, that this would happen in, back in the 1980s when the strategic planning started in, in, in Barcelona. And, um, but, uh, all the success has the counterside that this, uh, inequalities, inequalities have grown a lot, uh, especially since 2008.
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:15:10 And that means that our development model was weak, was not that strong, was not that resilient, as we say now. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because, uh, things are, uh, worse and worse for a lot of people. And we have inequalities, both social and both territorial. Also, we have, uh, areas, not big areas in the metropolitan region that are becoming big, deprived neighborhoods now, vulnerable, uh, neighborhoods, and that they have not taken advantage of the progress of the city, uh, in this past, uh, 30, 40 years. So we must address these inequalities at all levels. And then, of course, climate changes, the, the global challenge for, for all. So how to combine, you know, uh, this environmental justice, all, all the fair transition, uh, in front of the, the climate emergency is one of the biggest concern,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:16:06 Complex, big challenges that you're tackling there. Yes. So, um, I guess then, how do we, you have a lot of really good material in this, uh, this commitment. Um, but how would you advise, so how do the practitioners on the ground implementing the managers, the project managers, all of these types of people, how can they bring this vision to life, um, in, in their everyday work? What do you think?
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:16:31 Well, uh, one of the things that we have done, we, this metropolitan Commitment, 2030 is based on eight grand, uh, big missions, uh, for, in different areas. So we have the food mission, the mobility mission, the housing mission. And for each of these missions, we have, uh, uh, like, uh, we have identified an existing, already existing organization or institution or network, multi-stakeholder organization, network, or, uh, or institution. Uh, and we like are embedded in them. No, well, so they have adopt the, the, say Adopt a mission. So they, they have adopt, uh, the, the mission agenda, and we are working together to make, uh, uh, things happen and to make others do, uh, all these organizations, uh, in the field, no, that work in the neighborhoods and work in the, in, in all the metropolitan region territory work together. And, uh, one of the things that is, uh, is, uh, together with this, we are working on what we call the, the Kelloggs.
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:17:42 That is 10 things that a school can do, uh, a family can do, a small shop can do, uh, municipality can do, and so on and so forth, just to, uh, just to make people realize that everyone can contribute to, to this, to this mission. The, the mission has a, a specific goal, know and, and a strategic goal define. And, uh, we, what we do is to align all the different stakeholders and all the people that can contribute to, to these missions, to work together and to make, to build new alliances, to develop new tools, uh, for work, uh, starting with data, because, uh, we don't have, uh, so many indicators and metropolitan region level. So it's important to have the information, to have the indicators, the data at this level, and, uh, and, and, and creating new collaboration processes. So this is our, our work to involve, uh, all the stakeholders.
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:18:40 It, no matter the size, no matter the power that they have, so anyone can contribute to the, to the metropolitan, uh, to the metropolitan Commitment, 2030. And, and its missions. And we invite, uh, if someone doesn't know how to contribute, just come to visit us and we will explain to you, and we will put you in contact with other stakeholders, uh, no matter, public, private, uh, the academy, social organizations. We have a huge ecosystem of, of, of stakeholders. And, uh, they have been cooperating with us more than 700, uh, institutions and organizations. So, so this is the, the way that we worked, it's making them in, involving them in, in, in the development of the metropolitan commitment.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:19:25 I will tell our Barcelona office, uh, on how to get more involved Sure. With, with
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:19:29 You all. Yeah. Yes. Because one, one thing that we have introduced near one, uh, innovation that we have introduced in this strategic plan is that usually, uh, you say city's work with the quadruple Alex and say, no, it's, uh, public, the private, the academy, and citizens. And we have added the fifth one because it's media. Because media is very important for us, because, uh, it's not easy to explain what means metropolitan being metropolitan or acting metropolitan. So people is, is tied to the, the neighborhood or the, the city, the municipality. But when it comes to work, you know, at metropolitan level, or to make people think at metropolitan level, it's something that is not easy for them. And, and, and it's not easy for the media to, to, to understand. And it's even not easy for the politicians to understand, yeah. What do we mean when we are, we, we are proposing no metropolitan, uh, strategies, metropolitan policies, and metropolitan solutions to the challenges that we face. So media is important, so please, uh, yeah.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:20:33 Actually join. Yeah, actually, you know, we, we do, we do media, of course, with the podcast, and then we're involved in so many other areas too that are overlapping with, um, everything to do with urban innovation and things like that. So I think it would be really good to get more involved. It's great that you're so hands-on also. 'cause when you think of strategic planning, you don't necessarily think like hands-on, like bringing people together. You think like, oh, you make a plan and you leave it. Yeah. Right. But you're really taking this hands-on approach saying, Hey, this is our mission, getting everybody on board to the mission, and then seeing how you can push that through to the other stakeholders, right? Yeah. Yeah.
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:21:08 That's the difference. Uh, since 2016, we've been working to, to transform the think tank that we were into a, a
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:21:16 Do tank <laugh>.
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:21:17 Yeah. A a team that can, we've been trained in the, you know, design thinking, uh, processes and, uh, prototyping and facilitation and everything that can, uh, make us be the, the, the institution that we want that is, uh, uh, hub for, uh, for the metropolitan policies and, and innovation. Yeah. Yeah.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:21:38 Wonderful. I, I really like that approach. So, um, I, I want to talk also about any, do you have any more, what's, what's in the, what does the future hold? Do you have any upcoming initiatives? What, what's going on in the future?
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:21:51 Well, uh, so one thing is building, uh, finishing all the process and building the governance of the eight missions, because now we must, we have identified, um, and we have the agreements with the eight, uh, institutions, networks, blah, blah, blah, that, uh, that will pilot the, the missions. But now we have to develop this and to build new indicators and so on the way that we will work. But in the meantime, uh, we have the opportunity of European funds and next generation funds, and we have identified several opportunities, uh, linked to the, the, the missions. And now we are working, we are applying, I think like six or seven different projects with all of them, uh, with different stakeholders to develop projects at, uh, at metropolitan region level. That's one thing to do. And this year, and very recently, we have had elections in the, in Barcelona. Yeah. <laugh>, local elections. Now we will have national elections, and of course, we are working, we are a public private partnership, and the public parties like <laugh> on stands
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:22:57 Still right now.
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:22:57 So we must wait a little bit, uh, to, to have more attention from them. But this is one thing. And the other very important thing for us that we are working on now is our UBA rural pact. Because, uh, we understand the metropolis not something with, uh, it's urban walls and separate from the rest of the territories, in this case, from the rest of Catalonia. Uh, we really believe that, uh, if we have a strong, uh, metropolis and a strong, strong in the terms of planning and strong in terms of well articulated, uh, networks of cities, uh, around this concept of metropolis, if you want, uh, the rural areas will, uh, will be more sustainable and will be easier for the rural areas to progress. Yeah. Because otherwise, if you leave, uh, the metropolitan areas, the metropolitan regions to them, let's say market forces, or you don't plan them or, so they become black holes and they absorb everything, all the investments or all the, uh, high, uh, level jobs and everything.
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:24:05 Because even in Barcelona tour, everything, uh, is the, the, the, the, the trend is, is to concentrate in the big city and the city center. And, and the most important and, uh, well, the, the, the, well, the core of the, of the metropolis. And we don't want this because we think that this is not the future, and this makes everything unsustainable, uh, unsustainable. And, uh, for instance, in terms of commuting, no, because we have a lot of commuting that is, uh, mainly from the outskits, no, from the metropolitan region to the city center to Barcelona. Every day, 400,000, uh, cars, uh, come and go from the metropolitan region to the city of Barcelona. Uh, and this is not sustainable. So for us, this idea of an urban, rural, packed, in order to, uh, manage properly water, uh, energy, uh, food, uh, and even people, even talent, uh, all the resources, and to find ways to make it more equitable mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, it's a very important, and we are working on this, and we are working with the metropolitan, with the regional government of Catalonia, which is very important. Yeah. The involvement of the regional government.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:25:18 Yeah, absolutely. I have a couple questions that I, trying to think about it. Um, also from a, a couple different perspectives here. Um, I was wondering if you can put on your economist hat mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and say, like, from my economist point of view, what do you think are the most crucial elements for success in these types of, uh, strategic plans? Or you can even think about it on a project basis. What do you think is the most crucial element of for success? As economist?
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:25:50 As economist? Uh, I would say that, uh, rebuilding ownership, uh, for the local economies is very important. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, uh, and, uh, yeah. And, and, and, and recovering some, uh, fields of sovereign entity, um, in terms of energy, in terms of, well, that, that's what ownership means. No, that the, it's the, the, the locals, it's the people who can, it's able to decide about, uh, how things work, you know? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and how things, uh, are managed. And, um, and yeah, I think that, that, uh, the, the, the problem is that people see like, uh, economy as something in the air. No. That, uh, there's, I don't know, a hidden committee, <laugh>, you know, don't know where that is deciding No. And, uh, this, this <inaudible> theories, and, and so I know the economy is what we do every day. Yeah. It's, uh, it depends on our, our daily decisions and our daily acts.
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:26:51 And, uh, to make people understand that the local economy, it's, it's not a, a question of being, uh, protection is, is a question of understanding that the economy was, uh, you know, it's a flow. And if this, this flow, you know, you have, uh, flows of, uh, income now to the, to Barcelona, but these flows as, as they come, they go, uh, you have nothing. You must find ways to get, uh, this, uh, these flows of income of, uh, of, uh, resources stuck in the ter or at least to, uh, circulate as much as you can. And, uh, this is the multiplier effect. No. And, and it's, it's less than one of Microeconomy 1.1. And, uh, and this is only possible if there is, uh, ownership of the economy from, from the people. And that means that they are involved in the businesses and companies. It doesn't mean that it's everything public, but it means that, uh, that people is involved in economic decisions. Yeah.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:27:54 Yeah. Really, really interesting to see your perspective there. And, um, okay, now economist hat is, uh, taken off. And now as a geographer, what do you, same question. What do you think is the most crucial element for success?
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:28:09 Is the, the, to understand that cities, uh, it's like cities have five dimensions, or you can see the city, or if, if you want to, to govern a city, you need to take, uh, intercon five dimensions. The first dimension is the, the, the city as a living bodies, uh, the metabolism of the city. So the city has, uh, uh, resources, not take resources every day, uh, from, uh, well, the rest of the world, no, but usually from, from the immediate, uh, surroundings of the city, water and food and, and so on. Anyway, it, uh, takes resources and it generates, uh, waste. No, this is the metabolism of the city as the mm-hmm. <affirmative> metabolism as humans. And, uh, you must understand, uh, that this covers, of course, as I said, these now are mostly global processes, but, uh, you have this concept of echo region or be region is means this.
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:29:13 Now it's the mainland, uh, where the city, uh, has its footprint, no, and in the surroundings, this is one concept. It's a geographical concept. The second one is the functional city. The functional city is, uh, related with the, our, uh, day by day, uh, lives and the commuting. And where do we go for, uh, to study or for work or, uh, to visit our relatives or to take care of others. This is what it, it's, it's the, the, the dimension that is more linked to what we understand as a metropolitan area, regional, because it's related with commuting, with everyday, uh, lives and, and activities. This is a second dimension, and it d it's not easy that it's the same dimension that, uh, in, in terms of territory that the first one, they are usually different. The third one is the administrative city. So it's the bond that is the, the, the administrative boundaries that we have in our cities.
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:30:13 For instance, in Barcelona, in the metropolitan region of Barcelona, we are talking about, uh, 5 million inhabitants in 150 municipalities, uh, six different counties, one province, one region, blah, blah. There are a lot of administrative boundaries that, uh, that, uh, are there. Uh, Singapore is 5 million inhabitants, and it's one city, one state <laugh>, one <laugh>. It's, it's only one. So they have not this, this one day. So this is, uh, some, the context, uh, matters and the institutional context matters. So we have this third dimension, and of course, we know that it's not the same dimension that the functional one. So that's the reason that we need this, all these municipalities to cooperate in two metropolitan policies. The four one is the identity. Where do we belong, which is what our community, uh, are we identified with our neighborhood, with our city, with the metropolis. And I said, no, spoiler, no <laugh> the neighborhood city.
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:31:11 Well, it's, so you have to, uh, uh, combinate, um, to combine, uh, the metabolic dimension, the functional dimension, the administrative dimension, and the, uh, identity dimension. And then you have the flows, you know, the, the global flows of, uh, uh, wealth and, uh, you know, and, and resources and investments and so on is the fifth one. And from the city, you, the only thing that you can do is how to track it and how to this five I dimension. So from the geographical point of view is the challenges, how to govern at the <inaudible> that is influenced by these five different dimensions that are not easily, uh, shaped, no, yeah. In shaping in the, in the same well in, in the same governance tools and the same government governance, uh, processes. No,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:32:08 Really, really interesting to hear all your thoughts on that. Um, I always like to give an open floor now, um, and that's to let you speak to anything that we haven't yet gotten the chance to talk about today. Is there anything that you really want listeners to know? Um, anything that you're really passionate about that we didn't yet get the chance to talk about? Would you like to take the open floor
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:32:30 <laugh> <laugh>? No. Yes. No, what I'm looking, because I think it's a, it's a different, this is a difference from urban future and other conferences and other places that is a focus on innovative solutions and, and, and, and to asking different questions that the typical questions that, that we are, that we have in other, in other, uh, gatherings, like, like this. No. So I found very interesting that, uh, that the different point, the different points of view, and of course everything that is related and how to innovate in governance and, and, and how to make these five dimensions that, that I mentioned before, uh, of the city work together. And, uh, and, and, and that's the only possibility to make, uh, cities, uh, uh, flourish and, and, and thrive. Uh, it's, it's, it's our interest and how to involve people on this. Now we are, we are working or we want to work. Uh, we started working with, uh, citizen labs in the, in Barcelona and with the citizen science processes. I, I want to learn more about this and the different experiences of the cities working on this and, and making them work for the, for the general governments and, and, and the policy as, as, as not only as a matter of, uh, governments, but as a matter of, of all the society, you know, the social of the community.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:33:54 Yeah, absolutely. Thanks so much for sharing. Um, now we get to play a little game. Okay. Um, <laugh>, it's a segment that, uh, is one of my favorite segments called Roll With the Punches,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:34:07 Roll with the punches, answer this or that questions quickly, and with your first instincts.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:34:17 Um, so I'll ask it. It's, some of them are kind of silly. Some of them are, uh, more related to what we were just speaking about, and you just answer. You have to pick one or the other. Um, and you just go through it quickly. And then, uh, at the end, we can, uh, talk a little bit more if you want to explain your answers. Okay. Are you ready? Ready. Okay. Perfect. Very confident. I like it. Most people are like, Hmm, yeah, sure. <laugh>, I'll do my best. Yes. I, I believe in you. It's not as complicated as it sounds. So, um, good. Urban planning or innovation?
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:34:48 Innovation.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:34:49 Paella or tapas
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:34:51 Paella.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:34:52 Electric vehicles or public transportation improvements? Public transportation. <laugh>, coastal towns or mountainside? Uh, <laugh>
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:35:01 Coastal towns.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:35:02 <laugh>, that's the one that sums you. Vertical farming or community gardens?
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:35:07 Uh, say the first one.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:35:10 A vertical farming? Yes. This one? Yes. Uh, e economics or geography? <laugh>. Oh, <laugh>.
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:35:17 Okay. Let's say geography,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:35:20 Public policy or community engagement. Community
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:35:23 Engagement.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:35:24 Very good. All right. Do you want to explain any of your answers? <laugh>, <laugh>.
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:35:29 Well, I, I must say something about geography or economics, because I think that they work better together.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:35:35 Yeah. Just,
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:35:37 And the dominance now is from the economy side. So I prefer now the, the geography side. <laugh>.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:35:44 Yeah. Yeah. Makes sense. And, um, you said innovation over planning. Yeah.
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:35:49 Yeah. Because, uh, urban planning, uh, is, it is not innovative. It won't, uh, adapt or it won't be able to, to face the challenges because we have a, a changing world, a changing environment. And so urban planning, just, if you get stuck to urban planning, you need more flexible tools mm-hmm. <affirmative> to make it work better. So I think that innovation, of course, it's more or less the same. Okay. We had a lot of urban planning and no, uh, that much innovation. We need innovation in urban planning team. Yeah.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:36:18 Yeah. Very good. Uh, anything else you want to explain? Are you all good? Good with how, how it's left? Okay.
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:36:24 Well, it depends on the pay tapas. It depends on who makes the paella.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:36:28 Yeah. Good point. Good point. All right, so now we're at the very final question. It's the question that we ask every single guest, and it's, to you, what is a smart city?
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:36:42 A smart city? For me, a smart city is a city. So then a community of people that knows where they want to go and, uh, and get into action, uh, using the community resources, uh, their wisdom, their, their knowledge and their, their hands to make it possible. So to get, get they get into action to achieve a common future. Yeah, of course. For better.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:37:14 Yeah. Good, good. No, it's always just interesting 'cause everyone has a different, uh, way of explaining it, and they're all very valid. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, uh, very useful to take into account. So over these episodes, I've gathered all these different, uh, thoughts and they all play into my overall image of what a city can be. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Um, so thanks so much. Um, and uh, I want to take a second and say, yeah, thank you to Urban Future once again for hosting us. If you missed Urban Future Conference also this year, you can go to next year in Rotterdam. I hope I'll also see you there again. Um, and thank you so much for all of your valuable insights. Yeah. You wanna touch
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:37:49 Just one more thing? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because, uh, next year, well, from September to next September, uh, 23, 24, uh, Barcelona will be the European capital of democracy. Ah. And, uh, it's very important for us because it will allow us to, to test some, uh, some participatory processes or new tools, innovations at metropolitan level. So I think that, uh, related to what I said before, I think that it's important to make people know that, uh, from September, uh, on we will have a lot of activities, uh, and, and participation processes. Uh,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:38:24 Yeah.
Oriol Estela Barnet 00:38:25 Discussions and, yeah. And experiments and what,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:38:28 So we're all invited to, all invited. Your favorite place for paella. Yeah. <laugh>. Sure. Okay, good. Good. Uh, we won't miss it. So thank you so much for all of your insights and knowledge and uh, for playing along and for talking with me today, even through the heat of the day, <laugh>. So thank you so much. It's really valuable to have you. You are welcome here in Barcelona. Ah, yes. I'll see you there.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:38:51 Thank you all for listening. I'll see you at the next stop on the journey to a better urban life.
