Episode Transcript
[00:00:07] Tamlyn Shimizu: Welcome to Smart and the City the BABLE Podcast where we bring together top actors in the smart city arena, sparking dialogues and interactions around the stakeholders and themes most prevalent for today's citizens and tomorrow's generations.
I am your host Tamlyn Shimizu and I hope you will enjoy this episode and gain knowledge and connections to accelerate the change for a better urban life.
Smart in the City is brought to you by BABLE Smart Cities. We enable processes from research and strategy development to co creation and implementation. To learn more about us, please visit the BABLE platform at BABLE SmartCities EU.
[00:00:46] Tamlyn Shimizu: So hello to all of our listeners. I'm here live from Madrid, Spain, where Global Mobility Call is up and running and I'm pleased to be on the ground. So thanks to our partnership with Global Mobility Call, Babo has been thrilled to host international speakers for inspiring keynotes and engaging roundtables. So as part of this collaboration, we're also recording several podcast episodes. So a big thank you to Global Mobility Call for their support for this. So actually, if you didn't know, I'm actually originally from the US I'm from Colorado and I do have some favourite cities in the US and one of my favourite cities actually happens to be Boston, Massachusetts. It's a lovely city.
And so with me today is a great speaker who is going to be speaking on the behalf of the city of Boston, but also brings in a wealth of experience from a really rich background. So I'm really excited to introduce you today to Shin-pei Tsay. I'm the director of the Mayor's Office at the New Urban Mechanics City of Boston, Massachusetts in the US Welcome Shin-pei.
[00:01:47] Shin-pei Tsay: Great to be here. Thank you.
[00:01:49] Tamlyn Shimizu: Great to have you. We're here on the first day, so we haven't really absorbed in all of the stuff going on yet, but I want to first sit down with you and really get to, to know you better and get to know your. Your background and your insights, basically. So, but to get started, I like to start us off with a little bit of a teaser. And that teaser is so if you can imagine Boston, for example, 50 years from now, what does it look like? And also we're here talking about mobility. So what is the most used means of transportation in. Oh wow, that's a weird number to read. 2074.
[00:02:30] Shin-pei Tsay: Thanks for the question. Yeah, it's really fun to think about.
In 50 years, Boston is going to be in the throes of climate change, extreme weather, there'll be hot, more hot days, there will be cloud bursts.
And I think our population will also be one that's more elderly, majority elderly at the same time, majority diverse immigrant population, multiple languages, all of that.
So my, my imagination about Boston in 2074 is that it's a continuation of the evolution we're seeing in polycentric ism, where there's a. There's going to be more concentration in neighbourhoods all throughout Boston, all throughout the region, frankly, beyond Boston, you know, Massachusetts, the Boston regional area has many, many different. And they all have their own governance.
But I would imagine that we come together more as a strong region, not just through transit, but altogether across all these different issues.
It's going to be a more walkable place. So when we think about the way that people move around, I think that most people will be walking predominantly, not necessarily it's not about the number of miles, the distance, but it's that most people will need to be walking. And I, that's, that's my hope for Boston. It's a very historic city. So there isn't as much of a, you know, it's not like a western city, like a Los Angeles or San Francisco or, you know, any of the cities in the Midwest. It's very much a historic city, very much like European cities. So walking is very easy. There'll be more biking. And I also think that we'll see more different kinds of vehicles on the street to account for both the, you know, the narrow streets, the non street grid, and the people that need to move around that may not necessarily want to drive.
[00:04:43] Tamlyn Shimizu: What do you mean by different kinds of vehicles?
[00:04:45] Shin-pei Tsay: Yeah, so right now in the United States, a lot of the public transportation relies on a single size bus or a, or if you're in a wheelchair, a certain kind of wheelchair accessible vehicle. And then everyone else is in a private car of their own choosing.
And then there are people who bike and walk. But it's not, the city isn't designed for that. I'm imagining a city where we're designing for mini buses on fixed routes, not on demand shuttles, but that we have fixed routes for little buses that go through neighbourhoods. Kind of what you see in Madrid right now. Yeah, we have automated vehicles that take people around, maybe like super block or neighbourhood districts, kind of like what you see in an Amsterdam airport.
[00:05:33] Tamlyn Shimizu: The little shuttles.
[00:05:34] Shin-pei Tsay: The little shuttles for the old people. That's right. For people who may need a little help getting around. And we're going to have more of those people. Right. More elderly people by then.
And, and then the streets will be slower and there'll be more walking and biking as a result, and more families as a result, and more people able to get around.
[00:05:52] Tamlyn Shimizu: Cool. Yeah, thanks for painting that picture, Boston. I would now love to get to know you a little bit more.
I actually first met you, I think when you were working at Uber and I've seen many changes and you've moved jobs and done a lot of interesting things since then. But I also want to know more about your background before then. What led you really into this position, position where you're at today?
[00:06:15] Shin-pei Tsay: Sure. Actually Uber was a private sector stint. I was really happy to be able to be there. I was there for four and a half years. But my entire professional life leading up to Uber was in the non profit, civic advocacy side of things. And I was working in urban design, mobility and policy and I was working at all different levels of government or government influence. So at the very micro local level with, as a bicycle advocate, I was at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, working at a global level, but looking at how to advocate for cities and their voices. So think about the first introduction of the Sustainable Development Goals. You know, there wasn't necessarily, it was very focused on issues. There wasn't necessarily a focus on cities. So this practice of elevating the role of cities as being the actors in many of our most challenging situations was something that I was a part of and really proud to be a part of. And then I, I worked at a national level with starting a philanthropy called Transit center and so advocating for public transit in a very car centric culture. So yeah, a lot of different roles. And I was really proud of the time at Uber too because I was able to bring all those different kinds of experiences centering people in mobility, which can be very technocratic and really thinking about the end user experience. I think Uber actually excels in thinking about how people would use the product and service, but then expanding the way they thought about that through four different ways. One was to think about their role in congestion. So we had put out a white paper on congestion and just saying, you know, there isn't necessarily an eradication of a congestion through ride hailing, but rather that there was every car adds to congestion and can we think about increasing access? The second was being more complementary to transit. So right now Uber has a transit line of business that partners with transit agencies to cover gaps in the transit system. The third was to create a electrification goals. We created a sustainability commitment. 2030 US and Canada, all electric vehicles globally 2040 and then finally an accessibility, making sure that the platform would be accessible to people. With disabilities of any kind, whether they're visible or not. And I think this speaks to how I started with this and thinking about the diversification, the diversity in our populations and the kinds of people that we want to help with mobility.
[00:08:58] Tamlyn Shimizu: Really, really interesting background. So thanks for sharing with your position. Now you're in the New Urban Mechanics. And I was thinking, what does New Urban Mechanics actually mean?
So what does that mean and what does your work now look like?
[00:09:11] Shin-pei Tsay: Sure, it's a great question and a very valid one.
So New Urban Mechanics was started by a former mayor of Boston, Mayor Tom Menino. It was started in 2010 around and at that point he had been in office for about eight to 10 years. I think he was really interested. He was a mayor that did some big projects like the seaport development in Boston, but also was very prided himself on taking care of potholes and making sure the streetlights are on and being very responsive to the city on a very everyday level. It was really. He was a wonderful mayor.
And at this point in his term, he really wanted to show that government was a place that could innovate, that it was thinking about new ideas and it was able to make new ideas happen. So he created this team as a bit of a skunk team, if you know what that term means. It's like a separate little team that's a little set apart from the everyday departmental functions. But it was set up to explore those ideas and try to make them happen. And so it was a civic innovation team in the mayor's office. Having it close to the mayor's office and within the mayor's office meant that it had some authority to go and explore. At the same time, not being embedded in the department meant it could go beyond and really explore issues that cities were facing which were becoming more and more intersectional, becoming cross departmental, not necessarily easily mandated. And so this team explored all sorts of things and then technology, right? So technology was a emerging at the time, it was like an emerging function for cities in a more civic way. So before it was always very like enterprise level technology applications that a city had to consider. And at this point their smartphones were being adopted, right. So there was a greater ability to reach citizens.
And so there was a lot of exploration around improving government services for citizens. And so I think that's sort of the trajectory that the team has gone on.
[00:11:22] Tamlyn Shimizu: Really interesting. I've seen a lot of these kind of skunk teams, as you called it, show up in a lot of cities also here in Europe in different names, right? Sometimes this can be called like a smart city team, an innovation team, different things along those lines. So I guess those functions are relatively similar, right?
[00:11:41] Shin-pei Tsay: Yes, very much so. And I think that for every city, innovation can mean something different. And so I think that's the other kind of. That's the other thing to keep in mind with these teams.
[00:11:49] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, absolutely.
So you talk some about integrating policy, technology, design. You also kind of. I imagine that that's also a bit of the function that you're working in now. Can you share maybe a practical example of how these elements have come together to deliver a successful urban initiative in Boston, or in your experiences in general?
[00:12:12] Shin-pei Tsay: Sure. I'll describe a project that the New Urban Mechanics did early in its days, something called Citizen Connect. It was a precursor to 311, which everyone is more familiar with. I think in Europe, it might be a different digits. Maybe not 999, but something else. Not the emergency one, but something where you could call the city and lodge a comment or complain about something that's not an emergency. So Citizen Connect was something that the team tried out. It was an ability to literally call the city and say, you know, there's a pothole in my street. It hasn't been filled for several weeks. There's a street light that's out. There's a stop sign that someone took down, that kind of thing.
[00:12:57] Tamlyn Shimizu: Welcoming that criticism.
[00:13:00] Shin-pei Tsay: That's right. I mean, city halls tended to be quite opaque. Where is the front door? How would you tell someone that something is down? You just have to hope that someone sees it and then does something about it. And in this way, a city is opening its door, saying, here's how you get a hold of us. This is. And we. And. And frankly, to be held accountable to it, once it is lodged, it must be addressed.
And so this was started in Boston. It became 3, 1, 1. New York City also took it on, and it. It's now become a way for us to. Today, you know, we can look at the data, we can see what kinds of calls are coming in. We also can see where there's unevenness in the kind. In the volume of calls. So the people that tend to call, honestly, can be from wealthier neighbourhoods. And we would like to see more people calling from all over the city, not just people with resources.
[00:13:57] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, absolutely. I saw the city of Familicao in Portugal. They were showing me the other day when we were in Barcelona, their kind of dashboard where. Where citizens could input this into an app. Right. Why do you think Boston has gone the route of phone calling has. Have they also integrated this into an application?
[00:14:18] Shin-pei Tsay: Yes, there's an app, actually. Yeah, I think it was actually first an app and then they added the phone, realizing that not everyone has a. Yeah, not everyone has a smartphone. So you can do it both ways.
[00:14:30] Tamlyn Shimizu: Okay. Yeah, really interesting. Also, to continue on kind of the practical examples, I'm wondering if you have a favourite project. I know sometimes it's like choosing children or something like that, but do you have a favourite, a favourite child, a favourite project or initiative that you've been working on? And can you kind of deep dive a bit into those learnings? So far?
[00:14:52] Shin-pei Tsay: Yeah.
One of my favourites that the team has been working on is what we're calling cooling interventions. So Boston is a city that I think most people think of it as a city that is really good with snowstorms. It's a cold weather city. Historically, it has been for centuries. In the last 10 years or so, the climate obviously is warming and Boston is seeing the effects of that. So in the last few years, we've been having more heat waves and fewer snowstorms. And Boston released a climate action plan in 2015, followed up with a heat action plan, recognizing the growing need to intervene. The city is literally constructed to deal with cold and not heat. So lots of brick which absorbs heat, not no pervasive use of air conditioning or central air, and so more central heat. And so there really needed to be some ways of thinking about this systemically at the same time being able to alleviate situations when there were heat waves. So the team, in response to the heat action plan, started to think about ways that as we're working on more systemic ways of cooling, are there interventions like acupuncture to cool before those big systems come online? And so we developed some heat cooling interventions and they consisted, doing the research, they considered very, very basic things like pop up tents, misting tents, where you attach misting apparatus to a hose and attach it to a tent that anyone could, anyone could actually build. If you go to our website, you can download a DIY booklet on building one yourself.
[00:16:46] Tamlyn Shimizu: I love those misters when it's hot. Like I'm obsessed with them. Actually. I was traveling in, I think it was Croatia, I was on holiday and I realized that there were those misters like all around and it was so wonderful. It really cools your body temperature down on those hot days.
[00:17:03] Shin-pei Tsay: Yes, all the science says it cools it down. It also cools the atmosphere beyond where the water actually reaches.
So it's very, very effective and fairly simple way of cooling. We have water right now, I mean every. Actually we're experiencing a drought at the moment. But generally in relative terms, we have the resource of water. And so that's a way to tap into that. We also, there's an industrial designer on the team, they also designed misting towers. You could turn on a tap that also misted cooling kits. So we have people who continue to work outside during heat waves. And, and so they. There was a cooling kit, you know, maybe like a towel, ways of cooling down some water.
[00:17:51] Tamlyn Shimizu: We need to take care of our construction workers. I always see them out there and I feel so horrible, like I don't know how they do it that it really takes a lot of perseverance.
[00:18:01] Shin-pei Tsay: Yeah, exactly. And all the, you know, thinking about shade and so those are the interventions. I would say these are pop up, these are temporary. Right. They can be deployed anywhere throughout a city. But I think what's been really interesting to me is the learnings from such a thing. We had two heat waves this summer in Boston.
And the first one, all of the, all of the tents and the towers were immediately claimed during the heat wave. You know, there was a question when we were designing them whether or not there would be demand, whether or not they would be used. And they were claimed right away. And more systemically, the city is reimagining the Office of Emergency Management as a climate response office. And so we're now thinking about ways of it. There's more logistics and I would say neighbourhood based logistics rather than a centralized deployment.
So how do you think about shoring up the neighbourhood infrastructure, both in the hard physical infrastructure as well as the social infrastructure to endure those shocks essentially.
And maybe there should be a place in each neighbourhood, an existing place, not something that we need to create, but that somewhere where you can store some of these, this equipment and make sure that the neighbourhood can have the resources when these things happen because there isn't a ton of time. And then having to travel around the city to distribute them is quite a feat.
So how can we make sure that they're within easy reach in every place?
[00:19:36] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, really, really interesting. We're seeing so many of these different projects and initiatives pop up that are in reaction, of course, to the climate crisis and reaction to changing climates. I'm wondering if, just wondering your thoughts on this because I've been playing around with this idea and asking many people about how we get from reacting to being more proactive when it comes to resiliency. And how do you think we can actually get to anticipating this and being ahead of these types of things in the future.
[00:20:12] Shin-pei Tsay: That's a really great question. I think what's been interesting to me about the ability of the city to show that there are potential responses is it generates demand for more neighbourhood based responses from the neighbourhoods themselves. And we can't always rely on the neighbourhoods to speak for themselves. Some neighbourhoods have been historically underinvested and may not necessarily have the capacity. On the other hand, seeing that some places we have urban key islands like every city, Chinatown is one of them. Seeing some places receive some of the resources makes other places say, hey, we want the same thing. And that kind of demand, rather than being scared of it, is a proact, is proaction. Right. And having the city being able to respond to that is really great. We're now looking for next summer being much more proactive. So now we're planning on how much equipment does every neighbourhood need in order to meet the demand during an emergency heat wave? What sort of communications should be broadcasted? So it's not just the city communicating, but also the neighbourhood and community groups communicating. Are there additional inventions or innovations that need to happen or that we can be a part of to account for every single person's experience in surviving the heat wave? So, yeah, so we're thinking through those systems at the same time we're learning from some of those small pilots.
[00:21:37] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, absolutely. Now you've mentioned systems a lot and I want to talk about systems thinking because that obviously plays a significant role in addressing urban challenges.
I'm just wondering, how do you apply systems thinking and tackling these complex issues such as transportation, equity or climate, the climate crisis? What do you think?
[00:21:58] Shin-pei Tsay: Yeah, it's hard. I would say that understanding how all the different pieces exist and the role they play is part of narrowing in on being able to deliver an intervention or innovation effectively.
As the innovation team, you can't boil the ocean. You can't. You can't do everything. And that is, if you did, you would fail constantly. And failing is part of innovating. But you want to step out with an idea of where exactly you can have an impact, where exactly you can make a difference and who exactly are you looking to support?
So I think that to answer those questions, you have to understand the overarching system in the beginning and, and so understanding no. Why do we do things a certain way? Is it a policy? It's, you know, meaning it's required by law, or is it a small p policy, meaning we require as a city? Or is it a norm or a practice that we put in place because things were once a certain way.
And, and who exactly, you know, looking at some of the data, who exactly is most impacted by the things that are going on?
What. Also thinking more beyond, you know, what can we anticipate? Where can we anticipate things going? It can be overwhelming. And that isn't the point. The point is actually to make it understandable and accessible. And so that's the approach I take with systems thinking is the point is to make it legible, to make the things that we don't necessarily see much more visible so that we can effectively go in at the specific point and have make a difference there.
[00:23:53] Tamlyn Shimizu: No, that's really interesting. I haven't done a lot of work or talked to so many people about systems thinking, and I know that's something that you've talked about before. So thanks for sharing your thoughts there. I'll probably pick your brain a bit more later in the, in the fair about that. But I also want to talk about partnerships because obviously partnerships are so key in making a city work and making a city function well and driving these innovation projects to the finish line. So what strategies have you found to be most effective in building trust with diverse stakeholders?
Whether it's with the citizens, residents, private organizations, all the stakeholders that are needed. What is most effective in building trust?
[00:24:36] Shin-pei Tsay: It's a great question and something that we grapple with every day. I think having a front door is really important. Knowing who people can contact in government is very, very important. I also think people are smarter than we sometimes give them credit for. You know, general. People who are just going about their day, living their everyday lives, they care about these things, may not have time to be involved in a way that we, I think, you know, with civic engagement, think they ought to be involved, but they will pay attention to whether or not something sounds like it's grounded in evidence or it's conjecture or an opinion based on perspective. And so I think there's a difference there. And I think that one thing that we've been really thinking about as a city is how to shore up our evidence creation so that we're building that trust. We're providing some numbers, we're providing a rationale even with hard choices.
We're providing the data to show them why this, why we think this is the way to go, and not just assuming that because they agree with us.
You know, people who voted for this administration. It was a majority election.
We're not resting on that, that we're really showing that we're making a case for something. So I think that is enormously important. And then accountability, when you have that data and you provide the evidence, it is much easier for the public to hold a government accountable. And I think, I know it sounds big, but it also is so true. You know, when we ask for their input on something, there should be a follow up of some kind, even if we can't act on it.
If we are launching an initiative, we should come back with, this is the number, this is the adoption, this is what has happened as a result of a small grants program or something like that. I think that being more transparent across the, across the process, right from the front door to why we're doing something to how we actually did it ends up being really important to build public trust.
[00:26:56] Tamlyn Shimizu: Absolutely. What about with the partnerships with different organizations outside of the residence? So building these partnerships with private sector, with other types of organizations, how, how are those working in Boston?
[00:27:09] Shin-pei Tsay: There's a lot of partnerships, almost too many to understand fully. But I would, I think that there, there's, there's so much intellectual capital in Boston, there's so much tech innovation going on. And so I think inviting people in is a huge part of the way the city thinks about building trust. So something that someone on my team ran recently, there's a housing innovation lab at the city. And one of the things that we're facing, like many cities, is a housing crisis.
One of the aspects of that challenge is that it's become, with the financial, the macro economic situation, the financials, the cost of construction and just the cost of building in Boston, it's become much more challenging for someone to get into home ownership. And so the question was how, how do, is there a new design for starter homes so that people can get a, you know, get a foot on the economic ladder? And we invited developers to come and brainstorm together with architects and thought leaders and other kind of data people and so some of the thinkers in the space to really think about what designs would be possible in this situation, knowing what the situation is, and everyone seeing this is, this is a shared understanding of what that challenge is.
And then what are the ways that it would, we could design around it, but also make the economics work. So having developers who can really pencil, you know, pencil the financials out and say like, this is what it's going to take to make it worthwhile for the development community to come together.
Those are the kinds of things that we need to happen. And it's not that we landed on something right away as a Result of that sprint. But the recognition that there's a problem, the shared understanding of what that problem is and what the context is, the invitation to come together and brainstorm on it, I think is, you know, it's like it's such a giant step, first step in getting us closer to a solution.
[00:29:18] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, good example. I also saw you posted on LinkedIn maybe a couple days ago or something, this RFI for curbside management.
[00:29:25] Shin-pei Tsay: Yes.
[00:29:25] Tamlyn Shimizu: Right. And I actually put this to our RNI team because we have use cases that we've collected from different stakeholders and stuff. I think they're going to submit some for you as well, but I think that's a really cool way that you also foster that.
[00:29:37] Shin-pei Tsay: Yes. How is having that invitation for people to be able to send ideas over is so wonderful. And we love it when people are enthusiastic about what they're doing.
[00:29:47] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, absolutely.
So you mentioned that Boston is a heritage, like a cultural heritage, a historic city. Right. So I guess some. Some people, when you're talking about these historic cities, they argue that innovative urban policies and designs might come at the expense of some more traditional cultural heritage in cities. So my question to you is, how do you strike this balance between advancing modern initiatives and. And preserving that heritage of the neighbourhoods?
[00:30:17] Shin-pei Tsay: Yeah, I feel like maybe not. I think my answer might sound like I'm avoiding an answer, but I think to do good preservation means innovating around these systems.
A really good example of a project of this kind is something that my team worked on. We called it areaways. So in Boston, as a. As an old city, it had a lot of spaces under sidewalks that were essentially sort of subterranean working spaces or storage spaces for many of the buildings. They were initially like merchant. They were working buildings. Right. They were like merchant buildings or warehouses.
It's a harbor city, so it had a lot of trade.
As time went on, these areaways would get a sidewalk covered.
You know, they were empty underneath the sidewalk, but not really being maintained because they were so old, the property owners may not even realize that they existed. And as time went on, these sidewalks became very difficult to update. We started to hear complaints from the people with the disabilities community saying, and then you think about anyone that needs to be able to roll something on the sidewalk or just not have a trip hazard. It was something that the city really wanted to do. So we used radar to help property owners find out where these areaways are, in partnership with the disabilities community and the disabilities Commission, and then started to basically bring to light that these are where all the areaways are. And, and that just identifying that allowed for the ability to preserve them if that is what is wanted, or the ability to update them so that there was greater connectivity on the sidewalk.
So, you know, in this way, it actually brought to light a historical piece of the city that was forgotten and added and made it richer in a way at the same time that made it possible for people who are living there today to have a better experience on the street.
[00:32:27] Tamlyn Shimizu: Love that example so much. This is really reflective of how I view innovation. And we all want to preserve our cultural heritage, but we can use innovation to do that too. So thanks for that example.
I want to ask you, what do you think is the biggest challenge or the bottleneck that you're facing in Boston in your line of work? What tools do you think you're missing to accelerate the change that you need to make happen?
I think the biggest tough question.
[00:32:59] Shin-pei Tsay: Again, I don't mean to sidestep the question, but I think the biggest challenge is time.
You know, the sense of urgency is so great. These challenges that we're facing, we know they've been coming. We're facing them today. We have to deal with them today. On high tide days, some of the streets around the harbor are already flooded.
We have heat waves. We haven't had a snowstorm in the last two years.
And at the same time, it's become a more expensive city because it is a lovely city and we have a lot of people moving there. So wanting to do all these things does require taking time to explain it to people, needing time to create the evidence of why something is being pursued.
So if I could just buy more time for us, I would not, because I think the challenges are insurmountable, but so that we can work in closer partnership with the people that we need to.
But I think some ways of getting around it, if I is maybe also just more ears on the ground, people who are willing to listen and be very empathetic. I think we. There's, you know, I think in general, people who work in this space and really feel the sense of urgency can really want to move fast and do things, which is wonderful. At the same time, I really think that if you give people a chance, they will understand. And we need to be much better at being empathetic listeners and really utilize deep listening to better, you know, to make. Make also the problem. The problem. Understanding the problem. Definition more clear across the board.
[00:34:46] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, really good points. Now, I have to ask you, because I asked you a bunch of questions, but maybe there's also a topic that I missed that you're really passionate about or a project or something that you want to talk about that I didn't get the chance to ask you yet. This is the open floor part. You don't have to take the opportunity, but you can take the opportunity if there's something that you feel like the listeners need to know. This. This is something that cannot be missed in this to talk about. Is there something, is there a topic like that that we missed today?
[00:35:18] Shin-pei Tsay: I. No, no, I think we covered quite a lot. I think that, you know, something about all these different projects which can sound, you know, sort of like, you know, innovation can sound sort of sort of distant from people's everyday is to. Is. I hope, I really hope that we are making the connection to how all this work is really connected in century people's every day and really wanting to improve, you know, improve life for people in the city. So I don't know if there's anything else that we need to cover, but that's. That's really a connection I want to make clear.
[00:35:56] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah. Very good, Very good. So now we get to move on to our fun segment of the day. And in this segment that I. It's always very interesting to hear people's takes on it. It's called Hot take of the Day.
[00:36:13] Tamlyn Shimizu: Hot Take of the Day.
We want to hear an opinion of yours that may be slightly controversial or debated.
[00:36:26] Tamlyn Shimizu: Do you have a hot take for us today?
[00:36:28] Shin-pei Tsay: My hot take is that I do think, when I was thinking about the year 2074, I do think that there's going to be drones here, you know, drones making deliveries in cities. I think the first use case will be medical institutions because as I said, I imagine the city where the streets are slower, where people are walking, where there's going to be more biking, there's going to be more elderly people, the majority of people will have some kind of disability by then. And if we imagine that kind of livable city, then we need to be using technology to make the other things possible. And so I think, you know, blood transfusions, medicine, getting things across to hospitals, be the first use case. And then I think that as the population ages in global north cities, you'll see more automated delivery, you'll see more automated vehicles, you'll see people not wanting to drive. And. But I think, you know, I think the issue has been lately that with these new technologies, they want to be the panacea to every problem. And I think, I imagine a day where there are use cases where it's very It's a. It's like the perfect fit. And that we're able to also see diversity in all the technology, different technologies, including drones, where they're really providing value in a way that maybe like a big. A big vehicle van to make deliveries doesn't make sense anymore.
[00:38:04] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, cool. Yeah, I think I agree with that. Hot take too. I think drones do have a place in our future and probably a lot sooner than 2074. We already see use cases of cities trying out different things with drones. So the last question I have for you today is the question I ask every single guest that comes onto the podcast. It's always very interesting to hear the different perspectives. And that question is to you, what is a smart city?
[00:38:33] Shin-pei Tsay: Yes, it's a hard question, but I think that my answer would be that it's a city that can really change constantly and evolve. And it does it in a smart way. Right. It does it in response to the big challenges that we all face, but it also does it in a way that meets the needs of the people that live there. The meets the people. The needs of the people that are moving there and meets the needs of the people in the future.
And I think it's a city that doesn't privilege one tool over another. So it's not just policy, it's not just the practices of a government, and it's not just technology, but it's the integration of all those different things in an intelligent way that makes it smart.
[00:39:20] Tamlyn Shimizu: Very good, Very good. So this adaptable agile city. Right. I love. I love asking that question because it's just so interesting. I have like a million definitions of a smart city now in my head, and they all make sense somehow. Right. So with that, I just have to give you a really big thank you for coming onto the podcast and also coming to Madrid. We're going to be in a. I'm actually moderating your panel later. I'm really excited to talk to you more. So this has been really, really nice to discuss with you. So thank you so much.
[00:39:49] Shin-pei Tsay: Thank you so much for having me. It was a fun conversation.
[00:39:52] Tamlyn Shimizu: Absolutely. And also thank you to all of our listeners. Don't forget, you can always create a free account on BABLE-smartcities eu. You can find out more about smart city projects, solutions and other implementations. Thank you very much.
[00:40:05] Tamlyn Shimizu: Thank you all for listening. I'll see you at the next stop on the journey to a better urban life.
