Episode Transcript
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:00:06 Welcome to Smart in the City, the BABLE podcast. I am your host, Tamlyn Shimizu, and really at BABLE we aim to connect the players in the smart city industry with high quality information and ideas through our platform and services. This podcast is really an extension of this goal and mission to drive the change for a better urban life. First, a quick announcement from bobble. We are delighted to announce a new interactive online training course, Smarter Connected Places Experiential Learning for Tomorrow's Urban Leaders. You can find the link for more information and how to register in the show notes. The training starts on November 15th, so make sure not to miss it now onto our regular programming. So this episode is, I know, going to be very near and dear to many of my colleagues and our partner's hearts because we are speaking with two of our project partners from our EU funded project called SPARCS. So with me today is none other than Merja Honkanen, who is a project manager at KONE. And also with me today is Elina Wanne, who is the project manager for the four mentioned age 2020 Project SPARCS at the city of Espoo in Finland. So, welcome to you both. Uh, nice to have you here.
Elina Wanne 00:01:30 Thank, Thank
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:01:31 You <laugh>. Uh, good. Um, so we'll jump right into it cuz I'm really interested, so we're not just talking about SPARCS today. Um, we're really talking about, uh, a lot of really awesome topics. I don't wanna give too much away <laugh> at the beginning, but, uh, so I, I guess it would help the listeners to know a little bit about both of your backgrounds. Um, Elina, maybe you can start. Um, can you give a little bit of background into your role and what you do for Espoo?
Elina Wanne 00:01:59 Yeah, sure. So, uh, I, my name is Elina Wanne. I work as a development manager, is the official one, but then of course, post box, I work as project manager. I'm leading the whole work package for the work of Espoo. So it's City of Webo with plenty of partners, and of course, go with Mary Eyes is one of our very important partners making this projects successful. But yes, uh, previously before SPARCS, uh, I actually joined Sydney West, but only four and a half years ago to become sustainable level planner, and that's where it all started. Then we started applying it, and then, then my boss asked me if I would like to join. And yes, this is the road erode, very happy road I must have made.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:02:48 Yeah, it sounds like a lovely road. So, um, Merja, what about you? Um, how did you come into your role and what do you do within SPARCS and also otherwise?
Merja Honkanen 00:02:58 Hmm. So, uh, I'm working at Connet Technology and Innovation Department in our, uh, innovation unit where we, where we actually do, uh, work with new innovations, new ideas, uh, new early conceptual, um, uh, solutions, but also do research, uh, and, and future foresight on, on, uh, new topics like urbanization, sustainability, and so on. And SPARCS is one of our, um, biggest EU funded projects, which we are involved in as a, as a corporate partner. And, uh, my role in SPARCS has been to, to lead the tasks of community engagement and, uh, also business model, um, work in, in, in collaboration with all the partners in Espoo and also all the engaged stakeholders that we have invited in the, in the project and engaged throughout the SPARCS, uh, process. And, uh, on top of that, I work as a project manager for, uh, our, um, quite large r and d innovation program called The Flow of Urban Life, where we, where we actually, uh, develop new solutions, uh, for the next billion people to move into cities by 2030. So it's a very big, very big innovation program that we initiated a few years ago. So working very much on this smart city, uh, urban, urban flow, uh, context at con
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:04:29 Yeah. Exciting things. So I, I want to also, um, dive in in a minute, but first I'd like to do a little teaser to get us warmed up. And I would like you both to think, uh, Elina on your side, uh, in Espoo, what, um, if Espoo were an animal, which animal would Espoo be? Um, and also on your side, <laugh> Merja, um, for Conna, what, what animal would conna be?
Elina Wanne 00:04:57 You must,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:05:00 Yeah, no problem. You can also discuss between you two
Merja Honkanen 00:05:04 <laugh>. Yeah. This is a tough one.
Elina Wanne 00:05:06 Yes, sure. So
Merja Honkanen 00:05:08 If Espoo was an animal, um,
Elina Wanne 00:05:12 Yes. I think
Merja Honkanen 00:05:12 About, I would say it, it would be very large one
Elina Wanne 00:05:16 Rapidly growing. What kind of animal is rapidly growing? See, that's something that I'd like to emphasize at this point. It's really, our city is growing so fast at the moment, that's one big challenge for us to be sustainable and inspired at the same time. It's really, it's complicated. Yeah. But yes, but also agile. Yes. That's what what we are mm-hmm. <affirmative>
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:05:40 Maybe than a young, some kind of young animal. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So that one that is growing up quickly. So, uh, uh, <laugh>, I don't, I'm not sure.
Merja Honkanen 00:05:51 Yeah. Some sort of young, um, um, what is it, Zpr or, or an, and then here,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:06:04 Something that That's right. Feels
Merja Honkanen 00:06:08 Quite a, like, um, comes from the, from the countryside. Uh, but it's becoming more urban, uh, animal in a way.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:06:17 Ah, that's a good one. A young moose, a young growing up,
Merja Honkanen 00:06:21 Learning to run. And, uh,
Elina Wanne 00:06:25 That's yes, in a way,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:06:27 Yeah. That's, that's good. We're go with, we're going with Young Moose for Espoo then. Yeah. A final answer. Okay, good. And Merja, did you think of something for Kona though?
Merja Honkanen 00:06:40 Um, yeah, that's a, that's a tricky one, but I was, uh, the first animal that came to my mind was an octopus. Uh, so with a lot of, um, a lot of these
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:06:50 Arms. Yeah.
Merja Honkanen 00:06:51 Yes. And, uh, because we're a global, uh, global, uh, corporation, we operate in almost every part of the world. Uh, so we have, we extend to, to many continents, but also, uh, we move, we try to move, uh, with the current, uh, change, uh, also kind of agile, um, uh, to go to different places and, uh, and and also extend to different new branches and new offerings. For instance, the digital digitalization and, and the use of data and so on. So I think an octopus could be a, a good one.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:07:28 Perfect, perfect. It's a, it's also a popular one that, uh, we sometimes play this game of, which animal would you be for, you know, warming up for different workshops and things like that. Um, and that's a popular answer, so, Okay. Okay. Um, it's a, No, it's a good one. It's a good one. Cuz octopus are very, uh, smart and agile and have many arms, so Yes. That
Merja Honkanen 00:07:48 Makes sense. And we're popular are all over the world. We are known people recognize that elevators in,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:07:53 There you go. Kona, the ko, the octopus. Yes. Um, you new marketing. You're welcome. Yeah, thank you.
Merja Honkanen 00:08:00 I, I will send it to our communications
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:08:03 <laugh>. Perfect. <laugh>. Um,
Elina Wanne 00:08:06 Good. I will have to speak with Mr. Mayor about this young moose, because he knows that I do the hunting thing, so he thinks that I thought about it first, but it was Mary, you who said it first.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:08:18 There you go. There you go. Um, now I want to move on to a very important topic and, uh, also something near and dear to our hearts at Bob. And the topic is co-creation. Uh, so what does this word mean to you, Merja? And then maybe you can go next Elina.
Merja Honkanen 00:08:40 Hmm. Um, yeah, co-creation is actually something that is very close to my heart, like personally and also professionally. Um, uh, I did, I did my, my studies and I have also done, uh, previously masters and also, um, a PhD on, on co-creation and, uh, participatory design. So what does it mean to engage, uh, a number of different stakeholders into co-creation processes? Um, and for me it has always been some sort of, um, some sort of, uh, starting line of, uh, all the work that, uh, we do and all the development that we, we should aim at as, as a, as a society is to do it collaboratively. So I think co-creation is the key to everything. Um, everything we do, um, but also at, at gona, um, co co-creation with customers is something that we have also taken as a strategy to really focus on, on, uh, co-created solutions rather than, rather than making solutions for our customers or, or the rest of the world, we, uh, we, uh, want to co-create them and actually meet the needs of, of the customers, uh, in SPARCS. This has also meant that we take the end users into these processes and co-create together with citizens and end users, not just, uh, customers like, uh, company customers or, or that kind of partners.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:10:09 Yeah. Co-creating on the full process, the full line. So, um, Elina, did you have any thoughts on really what the heart of co-creation is? At a high level,
Elina Wanne 00:10:20 I have to emphasize that I have, I have very similar thoughts with Merja since, For me, co-creation is a, is very close to heart. It's the way really to, if you want to develop things do in that way that you really get everyone to participate and have a say. It's, it's not really for the city, it's, it's a bit different because the city itself has some legal processes where we have to take different stakeholders, but it's, it's still, um, it's kind of the minimum. And in Espoo, we really want to do something more. And, and we've been working on this, especially with the, with the area of Guerra, which is also one of the demonstration areas in SPARCS. We've been developing this, uh, co-creation model. We've been trying to put it also on paper what it means when the city wants to co-create, for example, and a district in the city.
Elina Wanne 00:11:13 And in this work, we have the companies, we have the, this, uh, research and educational institutes. We have the NGOs, and, but of course we have the citizens, the residents of the, of the city. And that's really how we try to bring them all together. Not, not, not at once, but, but, uh, with different stages so that everyone knows what's going on and what is the aim, what are we trying to develop. But of course, in the changing world, it's, it's really, it's not an easy task, but it's really something that we at <inaudible> really want to want to go to go towards to, and actually what our, Mr. Mayor really what, how he says it, it's something like, uh, when we do things together, we are successful. So I always like to, like to say that phrase because I, I really enjoy that in such a higher level. We recognize the doing together co-creation as, as a really important way of work.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:12:15 Yeah. Yeah. I, I definitely echo that as well. Uh, can you dig in now? Can you, can we dig in a bit deeper? So we spoke a bit on a high level of co-creation, but how do we actually apply this in practice? Um, how can we frame it? Um, uh, whoever wants to answer first,
Elina Wanne 00:12:34 Um, maybe from the city point of view, I can, I can continue a bit since, uh, of course we have some residents or, or citizen that are very, very active and they are always like, giving feedback and, and, and participating. But then we have plenty of those who never say anything. And we would truly now need to look at how we can activate those who very seldom participate in any way. Find those ways to more equally, equally, uh, uh, engage, uh, kind of different, uh, citizen groups instead of only those active ones.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:13:13 Yeah, Yeah. Good point. Merja, what do you think?
Merja Honkanen 00:13:16 Well, um, when I think about co-creation, I, I always, um, uh, or, well, people usually tend to think about co-creation as a, as a, something where only kind of positive outcomes or, or co-created solutions come out, which everybody agrees upon. And, um, I would say that my experience also shows that co-creation is something where different stakeholders have a different stake on something. So it's also about debating and finding solutions, having a dialogue, uh, on, on these important topics, and trying to find some sort of, not maybe, um, ideal solution or solution that fits to all, but, uh, more like this, uh, round table of, of different perspectives that we can then come together to co-create, uh, on. So I think it's very crucial part of co-creation that, that we have different stakes and we, we give space for different perspectives to coexist rather than say, Okay, this is the solution that we, that we all agree on, uh, but we, we try to find this, uh, space and, and create this space to, to debate and have a dialogue and, and also change through that, that way rather than, rather than finding the best possible idea.
Merja Honkanen 00:14:41 Um, but, but having, having said that, I would also, uh, like to emphasize that co-creation, uh, I mean, there are a lot of processes and a lot of methods and tools that we can apply and that we can, uh, learn from and utilize in corporation processes. And for instance, in the SPARCS Project, um, gonna, has been leaning very much on design, uh, thinking and also design research that is a iterative process. So we, we, uh, engage different stakeholders in different phases of the process. And several times we can go back to these people and, and back to these stakeholders, um, and, and really like, uh, do this iteratively, uh, by utilizing different methods and tools, innovation, uh, methods and tools, uh, rather than, rather than just say, Okay, let's co-create. But it's, it's actually quite a, quite a systematic process in a way.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:15:36 Yeah, Yeah. Absolutely. And, um, Elina, maybe, how do you see it from the, that from the city perspective, What tools and, uh, resources can the city utilize to support these processes?
Elina Wanne 00:15:49 So this is not something that we've been working in SPARCS really putting, you know, paper, what kind of model would support, uh, smart and sustainable city development, and especially kind of district level. We are not going to develop the whole city at the same time of, of, of course we do it by district, by district, but, uh, yes, we are now creating a toolbox for that. And it's, of course, I see it as a toolbox, not just for the, uh, civil servants, the city workers, or in place, it's, it's more like, um, a toolbox for everyone, also for the city says, because one, one actually challenge is, and what we get questions a lot, both from residents and from companies, is that when their ideas or solutions should, should, uh, kind of be pro to, to, um, to the process. When, when is the time that, for example, energy solutions for a district are decided?
Elina Wanne 00:16:45 Or when is the time for, uh, for the community, for example, park parks planning, when it's done, when, when is the time that the residents can have their say. So usually the process is so long, and it's a bit complicated as well. If you think about the land use planning process, that not everyone, or should I say, very seldom anyone knows exactly when it's the right time to, to have an effect on something. And, and that's what we are now trying to make more visible to everyone so that we would all be on the same line, what's going on and when, and how I can as a, as a company representative or as a resident, have my say or bring my solution or whatever. But really just to creating kind of step by step manual for that, that, Oh, this is how it all starts, and this is what is decided here and this is what happens here to, to make it more Yes, understandable.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:17:49 Yeah. And off of, off of that, um, with citizen engagement, Stakeholder engagement, any of the topics we were speaking about, do you have advice to give, um, other cities who are really, um, focusing a lot on developing these co-creation methodologies?
Elina Wanne 00:18:05 I think one, one very key learning a bit from the, not from the co-creation, but truly how to reach actually the residents is to go where they already are. Go to the groups that already exist, not to try to create new ones without, without <laugh>, without, uh, without good back, uh, background where, because it's much easier to reach out to citizens when they have already some kind of reason why they are gathered together and when there is a kind of group already. Because sometimes city organized events are really not that popular and they are not reaching out, especially to those who are not usually interested in, in what the city does. So go where the citizens are.
Merja Honkanen 00:18:52 Mm. I think that's a very good, good advice from, from Elena. And also the kind of, um, not thinking about individual citizens, but rather think about communities. Yes. Where do people form already existing communities and where do they meet and what are the relations between these people that already exist? And, and try to really draw on, on those, uh, relationships.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:19:18 Yeah. Yeah. Very good points. Uh, and do either of you have a story, Um, I love story time on the podcast. So do either of you have a story when co-creation, citizen engagement, stakeholder engagement, anything along these lines when it went wrong, Um, some kind of lesson learned, uh, from it?
Merja Honkanen 00:19:42 Hmm. Well, one, one story comes to my mind at least, um, because in a way it's, it's both a success story and, and also a challenge, uh, story. Uh, we were organizing in SPARCS these, uh, 1.5 degree workshops where we invited, uh, citizens to play, uh, a climate puzzle, which is a, a design game developed by a dma, um, environmental consultancy. And, uh, we had, we, we had started the preparations for the workshops and, uh, we were living, um, this covid time that we are all are all very familiar with. And at the first, um, first premise was that we would organize the workshop online and have a, have a remote workshop where we send these games to the, to the citizens who want to participate and, and facilitate the game playing session, uh, online. Uh, and, and the purpose of the workshop was to kind of, um, uh, identify first your own, uh, households, uh, behavior, your lifestyle choices.
Merja Honkanen 00:20:50 What do you, how do you live, how do you move, uh, how do you eat and, uh, what kind of leisure time activities you do. And based on that, you get, you get a calculation of your household's, uh, climate footprint. And then the next step in the game is that you, uh, you get, uh, these different kind of actions cards on the keyboard where you can then start to discuss which, uh, actions you could take as a, as a citizen, uh, which, which kind of changes you could make on a long run until 2030 to reduce your carbon footprint of the household. And, uh, we thought, Okay, you can do it by the way, you can, you can play it, you can, you also play it at home, uh, and then remotely join this, this session. And, uh, at the end of the day, we had to cancel, uh, this workshop because there were not really many participants who wished to join this session, even though the topic was very interesting.
Merja Honkanen 00:21:50 And we actually went to libraries to meet with people and tried to get people on board. Uh, we got only a handful of, uh, full of participants and, and realized that this doesn't really make sense because it is actually a game which is supposed to be played in, in bigger like auditoriums, and you can have a conversation around it and, and so on. So I think that was, for us, a very good learning on, on that, you know, you can't just, uh, switch or not everything works kind of, uh, in, in the way that it's supposed to be. If we are, we have to do these big changes from physical, uh, environment to remote, um, environments, and then we should really think differently about the ways we engage with citizens if we do online engagement or, or this kind of digital, uh, engagement. Um, and then afterwards, we, we, uh, we kept on organizing the, the workshop and the covid restrictions became, uh, well, they were removed, so we could actually do it, uh, live physically at two, two schools in, um, in Espoo. And we really got, uh, very nice number of, of participants. And we also used, used a different kind of, um, uh, recruitment strategy to, to get them involved. But it was something that they, uh, I would say that they really wish to join to this event and, and have this conversation and understand what it, what it is and what does, what does kind of impact one person or your household make for the, for the big bigger hole and have those conversations in a shared space.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:23:34 Good example. Um, very nice story. Elina, do you have, uh, a story as well?
Elina Wanne 00:23:40 Yes. Maybe, maybe just a general point that after Covid 19, it's been really, our residents are very slowly getting back to, to kind of joining us at face to face events. It's really, it's, it's somehow that people have realized that you have, you can do so many things online and, and maybe their daily schedule is now so that there is no time for, for this kind of, because it takes time to travel there, it takes time to be there, and then it takes time to go home. And yes, you may not, it may be difficult to get there. And yes, it's like, it's something slowly, the numbers are arising, but like, for example, last spring we really recognized this, this as a problem. We had events, which, uh, which were, um, hybrid. We had pretty well participants, but then we have some workshops who were trying to do only face to face.
Elina Wanne 00:24:32 And, and a number of participants was really low despite the very, very, uh, should I say, large efforts for marketing. And, and really we were, we were really using all the city, city, uh, um, resources on, and, and what's the word for that? But anyway, different, different ways to communicate and we still couldn't reach out. So yes, maybe, but this is probably something that if we ever get, get rid of covid 19, then, or, or similar, similar things, then maybe we get back to some kind of normal again. But, but people are not interested in meeting face to face.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:25:15 Yeah, yeah. I've heard that also from, uh, other conversations. I've had this struggle, um, during Covid, um, also in this kind of post covid covid phase, however you want to call it, on, um, the struggle of getting people back engaged in person. Um, can you, um, yeah, I, I want to give you some time, cuz I know you both are very passionate about this topic. Um, and I want to give you both a little bit of time on the floor to speak about anything that you feel like we didn't touch on yet. Um, anything that you really want listeners to know, um, about any topic really. So, uh, I give you an open floor if you would like it. Either one can start <laugh>.
Merja Honkanen 00:26:05 Okay. Elena, do you wanna, do you wanna go first or
Elina Wanne 00:26:10 No, no, you can, you can go first. I can, I can still give it a little thought.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:26:17 You can both give it a thought if you'd like.
Merja Honkanen 00:26:21 Yeah, yeah. One thing that kind of comes to my mind when I think about engagement and participation, like now I'm, I'm really sticking with this topic and co-creation. Uh, uh, it's quite different, uh, processes when we, when we, um, engage with, with citizens, with end users, uh, than when we do kind of engagement or co-creation with businesses and with, with, uh, public organizations and so on. And, um, if I just kind of reflect on our experiences from from Kona Innovation Unit, uh, it's, uh, it's a different path to go to when we do, like, for instance, business design and we re we really, um, invite different business stakeholders to, to co-create and think about, not just, uh, um, not just for instance, uh, a solution new, uh, new technological possibility, but the business possibility and think about, well, how this could become something that is actually, um, profitable or that has a long term kind of, um, um, long term investment that we could, we could all engage in or we could all, um, trust on that this will bring some benefits.
Merja Honkanen 00:27:38 So when we are, when we are considering this, um, different stakeholders, I think it's also very different processes and, and different methods and ways of working that we have to use when we engage citizens or when we engage business stakeholders or, or, uh, even public organizations. They operate in a, in a completely different way than, and companies. So this is something that we have to constantly kind of bear in mind and, uh, fit, fit the tools and the methods to the, uh, stakeholders and, and the kind of focus groups that we want to reach and we want to bring into the process. And then also something that, uh, I think becomes so, uh, vivid in the work with citizens is that they don't necessarily want to engage. Uh, we have this expectation that of course, if we just organize something and they are happy to come, but it's, it's not, uh, often the way. So there there are different kind of, uh, dynamics between these, these different, uh, stakeholders. So it, it's something that we should always bear in mind that we can't just expect that, uh, whatever topic we, we want to co-create upon people are just eager to, to join and, and give their ideas and, and opinions about the topic. It's really, it's actually quite labor's work, uh, to get people engaged and build those relationships with, uh, different stakeholders.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:29:10 Yeah, definitely. Good, good point. On the last to, to throw in the building relationships, I think to get people engaged, we have to focus on the relationship building always. Um, and, uh, Elina, did you want to say anything else? Yeah,
Elina Wanne 00:29:23 Sure. I was earlier mentioning that Asbo is growing rapidly, and we see that as, as a very, um, it's, it's a challenge, but, but in a way it's not impossible to, to fight that challenge. Uh, we have five to 6,000, 6,000 new residents every year currently, and actually most of them are foreigners. And that's, uh, that brings us to the question that how we can engage those together with, with the kind of, um, our, uh, residents who speak Finnish or Swedish as their, as their mother tongue, how we can engage those with the new foreigners that are joining our city and, and what are kind of the ways that we could activate and feel also these newcomers as, as well come to our city. And, um, yes, how we really can engage those, those as well. And, uh, then of course, um, it's also about inclusion.
Elina Wanne 00:30:33 It's about, uh, feeling part of the community. These are questions and challenges that are everywhere in, in Europe, but actually globally. It's not something that Espoo alone can really solve. But one, one way that we have now looked at it is actually coming from the European commission's, um, initiative, new European Bowhouse as it combines the sustainability, which of course we at the, uh, center of excellence for sustainable level and want to want to promote, but it combines it with the more social sustainability from the point of inclusion, but also to, to the, another very important issue which we have discussed with Merja earlier. It's about building, uh, building cities and, and urban environments that are beautiful and, and we feel comfortable for people to live in. So that's why I see from the old four pillar sustainable development kind of framework that we've be working with so long. I, I see this new European bowhouse as, as a new framework and, and, and providing us new aspects of building smart and sustainable cities in the future.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:31:51 Great point. Uh, and what's next for your partnership between Espoo and, and Kona? I just kind of was thinking, uh, we didn't touch at all really yet on this, uh, this great partnership that you've built. Uh, what's, what's next for you too,
Elina Wanne 00:32:07 From S four C of s four point of view? I'd like to say that, but we are just looking forward to the next steps. We haven't, they, they are not quite clear yet, but of course, SPARCS is still going strong for the next two years. So we will, we will do collaboration anyway, but of course, SPARCS is initiating new ideas and, and what should be the next, next steps? And, and of course it's also about building, building, uh, engagement with companies at and the city and, and from that point of view, yes, hopefully something interesting and and inspiring for us all.
Merja Honkanen 00:32:49 Yes.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:32:50 Are we looking forward to that?
Merja Honkanen 00:32:51 And I also comment on that because I think, uh, what, what SPARCS has brought to Connet is this really like, um, I don't know, a, a perfect, uh, example of urban development and, uh, sustainable development. So it's a, it's a, uh, international project with many cities in many partners where we can actually develop new sustainable solutions to make cities more believable, uh, for people to drive in the cities rather than suffer <laugh> in the future. So this is something that is very, uh, essential. So for Connet where we want to, uh, create, uh, better urban flow or improve the, the flow of urban life. So this cannot be done, uh, on our own. This has to be made in, in collaboration with, with cities and with different partners. And, um, in that sense, I think there, there's always interesting possibilities. Uh, and Kona is also based in, um, in Espoo. So we have our big, uh, headquarters in, in Gaylan mean in Espoo. So this brings us also good, good, um, kind of a platform and, and, and locates us, um, in, in Espoo. So we can do quite easily, uh, different kind of, uh, pilots and, and case studies, uh, with, um, partners in Espoo. So that's definitely something we will, we will work on in the future.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:34:18 Amazing. I'm looking forward to seeing all the developments in that. And now we move on to a segment of ours. Uh, it is called Shout out. Shout out, mention a person, an organization or a city you think deserves more recognition in the field. Uh, this could be a SPARCS partner or it could be anyone else that you want to mention. Uh, Merja, do you have someone that immediately came to mind? Oh,
Merja Honkanen 00:34:50 Wow. Uh, maybe Elena, if you can start so you have something on your mind. So what, what, what is this? Shout out. You want to kind of recognize a person or an
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:35:00 Organization. Organization or a city who you, maybe a partner of yours who you, um, really think that people should know about and deserve more recognition. And of course we'll tag them and all of that good stuff. <laugh>,
Elina Wanne 00:35:13 This is a difficult one.
Merja Honkanen 00:35:15 Yes,
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:35:17 <laugh>,
Merja Honkanen 00:35:17 I mean, there are so many, I would say mm-hmm. <affirmative>
Elina Wanne 00:35:21 Maybe then it's from, it's not from Spark, but from Espoo point of view, we have learned, uh, from, uh, Manheim what they've been doing, especially regarding citizen engagement. And we have some collaboration with them, but I've been myself really amazed with their work they've been doing, doing good work there. So it's Monheim Germany is my answer.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:35:44 Ah, very nice. Not too far from where I'm sitting today. Just a couple, just an hour or so north. Uh, good one. Um, Merja, did you have someone that came to mind now? Yeah,
Merja Honkanen 00:35:55 I have also several, but, uh, well, one, one I definitely want to also mention is that, um, uh, we have, uh, in Finland we have this, uh, funding institution called Business Finland, who is really, um, kind of pushing, uh, companies and organizations to, to develop new, new solutions for, for more sustainable cities, but also to take these solutions out in the world and, um, and take them, take them more kind of, um, on an international level. So I would say business Finland is some, is an organization that is not so highly recognized abroad, but it's very well known in Finland. And, and it's something that, uh, also con's is, um, getting funding from in our, in our biggest, uh, one of the biggest, uh, uh, r and d programs. And they have launched this, uh, bed program, which is kind of like a, uh, a leading company, uh, r and d innovation program where actually bigger corporations can set up, um, this, um, industrial development projects or even programs and bring different partners to their ecosystem to, to kind of, um, uh, make that mission happen collaboratively. And Conec, we have our own own mission, but there are also several, uh, finished companies who have their own, uh, mission related to energy related to sustainability, um, related to city, uh, development and so on. So I, I would, I would maybe recognize business Finland in in this occasion.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:37:30 Good, good, good point. Uh, and good recognition. So now we're ending our, uh, pretty much ending most of our questions. I only have one remaining question for you, and it is a question that we ask every single guest, and that is, to you, what is a smart city? Uh, perhaps Elina, you can go first this time and then Merja.
Elina Wanne 00:37:54 Sure. Despite of my background in engineering, I, I, I somehow nowadays, uh, prefer to describe a smart city as, as built for people by people. And really it's, it's about creating, like Mary said earlier, livable, livable, uh, space. And, um, it's, it's more like about the people then the technology. In my point of view. We need the technology of course, to support that. But if the people are not pro and, and, and with, when you, um, when you develop it, it's, it won't work. You need the people to make the technology work, and that's with the smart city. And then of course, for me, smart city means also sustainable city. I sometimes tend to say smart and sustainable city, but if I'm just talking what smart city it includes, it's, it's included. It's also sustainable. It's not smart. It's not smart to be, to be unsustainable or, or did I said correct. Yes.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:38:59 Yeah.
Elina Wanne 00:39:00 But yes, the people make the smart city. That's, that's mine.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:39:03 Yeah. Good answer. Um, Merja, do you have a similar thought or do you want to go in a different
Merja Honkanen 00:39:10 Yeah, I think very, very good one. It's not smart to be unsustainable,
Merja Honkanen 00:39:14 <laugh>. Um, so going, going to the same direction, I would say that smart cities are, are cities are urban environments that are co-created among, uh, private, public and or people partnerships. So this kind of, um, this kind of, uh, triangle of, of different, uh, organizations and different partners who create that smart city, it cannot be smart if, if, if it doesn't engage and include everyone. Um, and then, uh, also the, the important aspect is yes, sustainability. And, and that is from a very kind of environmental point of view, um, that the solutions in, in smart city, uh, rather, uh, decrease carbon emissions rather than increase. Uh, and also, uh, they, these solutions and smart cities, they, they are also socially sustainable so people can, can live, uh, livable, lovable cities. So something where, where there's space for, for people and space for life, uh, rather than, uh, blocks where, where you, where you enter and, and really this dense, uh, cities might not be the way we want to live, uh, for the, for the next 10 years or even even beyond that.
Merja Honkanen 00:40:37 It's, it should have space for, for people to live. And then, uh, maybe, uh, a fourth aspect or I lost account is the, the use of, of data and the use of kind of, uh, uh, yeah, new technologies, but more importantly, what do we do with this kind of, uh, huge amount of, of data that we can now, nowadays get from the different systems that, that work in the cities? Uh, a lot of companies talk about big data. Uh, cities talk about big data, but it's not something that we can just utilize. We have to also learn, learn to use it and, and kind of build the capabilities to, to learn from that data and, and utilize that data in a smart way. So I think these are the building blocks of, of smart cities.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:41:27 Very well put and very eloquent on both of your accounts. Uh, and this is where I have to tell the guests, um, that if you want more information also about SPARCS, uh, please follow the link in the show notes, our entire SPARCS, s p a r c s.info to find out more about the project. Um, and yeah, this is, this is it. Um, hopefully it wasn't too painful for you. Hopefully it was a smooth sailing. And, uh, I really want to thank you both very sincerely, uh, for your great insights. A great conversation, great dialogue. Um, and I'm very glad that Bobble can also be a partner with both of yours, um, in the project, and I hope also in the future too. So yeah, thank you both for coming on.
Merja Honkanen 00:42:13 Thank you, Talin, thank you for hosting the podcast and, uh, thanks for having us. It was a pleasure.
Tamlyn Shimizu 00:42:18 Anytime. Anytime. And to all of our listeners, don't forget, you can always create a free account on Bvo smart cities.eu to find out more about smart city projects, um, like the SPARCS Project solutions and implementations. Thank you all for listening. I'll see you at the next stop on the journey to a better urban life. How cold is it over there right now?
Merja Honkanen 00:42:44 Give this for, Yeah, I think it's 10 10 decrease. Ooh, that's warm.
