Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Tamlyn Shimizu: Welcome to Smart in the city, the BABLE podcast, where we bring together top actors in the smart city arena, sparking dialogues and interactions around the stakeholders and themes most prevalent for today's citizens and tomorrow's generations. I'm your host, Tamlyn Shimizu, and I hope you enjoy the episode and gain knowledge and connections to accelerate the change for a better urban life. So welcome back, everyone, to another episode. I'm excited to bring you a great episode, of course, with a fantastic guest, as per usual. And today we're talking about medium sized cities.
It's a passion of mine to think about the smaller and medium sized cities. So I'm really excited to dig deeper into this topic and really talk about the power and opportunity that they truly hold. So with me today is none other than Christian Gangl. He is the deputy mayor of the city of Sindelfingen in Germany and the secretariat and president of the Eurotowns Network. Welcome, Christian.
[00:00:59] Christian Gangl: Yeah, welcome, Tamlyn. It's a big honor for me that I can talk to you today.
[00:01:04] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, I'm happy to be here and also happy to be in Sindelfingen for the first time. We're recording here live. We have a great view out over Sindelfingen. So thanks for having me.
[00:01:13] Christian Gangl: Yeah, it's a pleasure.
[00:01:14] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah.
So we like to start with a little bit of a teaser question to get warmed up. And it's a bit of an oldie, a favorite of mine. So I want to ask you, if Sindelfingen were an animal, which animal would it be?
[00:01:30] Christian Gangl: Oh, that's not so simple.
But if I would think about it and think about the history sindelfingenheise, regarding car production, we're the biggest Mercedes plant in, I guess, in Europe with more than 30,000 people. So it's all about horsepower. So I would compare a single thing into a horse, because horses are known for strength, reliability, they are able to work tirelessly. And this is the part that mirrors Sindelfingen's robust industrial base and also the commitment to innovation, because horses are also highly adaptable, versatile, capable of thriving in various environments. Much like Sindelfingen's diverse community. We have a lot of very diverse community here. More than 50% of the people are not coming from Germany. And so that reflects also the ability to embrace new opportunities and challenges.
[00:02:28] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, very good. All encompassing in a horse. I love it.
And for eurotowns, we're talking about the network now of cities. Which animal would that be?
[00:02:39] Christian Gangl: Yeah, that's even more harder, more difficult. It's harder. So I could imagine that eurotowns could be an ant colony because ants might be often overlooked, especially when they are by themselves, just like medium sized cities. Also, there are very many of them. And just like medium sized cities, ants work together.
They share resources and responsibilities to build and sustain their environment. So this reflects how eurotowns tries to bring together medium sized cities, to collaborate, to share best practices and to support each other's growth. And the more ants come together, the more they form their colony and the more they are visible.
[00:03:24] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah. And can't. Like ants, I don't know the exact number, but they can lift like thousands times their weight. Right. They're super strong compared to that.
[00:03:33] Christian Gangl: They gain their strength from collaborating, from working together, from learning each other, from supporting each other. And that's what makes their power then.
[00:03:41] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, absolutely. I've never had that answer before. An ant.
Very good one, though. Yeah, very good.
So I want people, I know you have a really interesting background and I want people to get to know you. Also, before we dig into eurotowns and more, can you tell everyone a little bit about yourself? What's your background? What led you to this role today?
[00:04:04] Christian Gangl: Yeah, I'm working more than 40 years now for local and business administrations, studying public affairs, public administration. And then afterwards I started working for my hometown and I had the chance to get mayor there, and I was mayor for six years there. And afterwards I changed. I was a business director in an international school near Munich. But then I tried to get back to my rules, which is public administration.
And since 2010, I serve as the deputy mayor of the city of Sindelfingen, which is in the southwest of Germany, very close to Stuttgart. And as I already mentioned, is well known for the Sindlefingen, for the Mercedes factory in Sindelfingen, for the brand, with the. With the star.
[00:04:54] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, yeah. What is it about public administration, do you think? Like, why do you like it?
[00:04:59] Christian Gangl: Yeah, it's because you're in the level of the, of the city, are very close to the people. So you meet people when you go shopping, you meet people when you make sports, you have the direct contact. And this is what I really, really love. So this is where you get feedback. So they say, that's not good. Try to change this every now and then. They say, okay, good job. That's also very nice. And this is what I always appreciate it very much because you have the direct contact to the people, amongst the people, you meet them, and you have really, really close contact with the people where you work for, because you serve for them.
[00:05:41] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, that's a nice perspective. I like that. So I got to know you and Sindelfingen really best through the Eurotowns network.
Can you please explain to us what is the Eurotowns network? How does it support medium sized cities and what are the key benefits for cities?
[00:05:59] Christian Gangl: Yeah, Eurotown is small, but from my point of view, a very dynamic network of medium sized cities across Europe, from Finland down to Italy. And what we try is to foster cooperation and the exchange of best practices. Because from my point of view, it's very important that we know each other, that we know how are we working, how do others work, and what can we adapt to get better in our cities. And the network exists already since 1991. And this is also quite unique because we are a long standing network. It's not for cooperation for one project, for two or three years, and then leave, because that's not the intention. We try to work together and we try to have lasting corporations and try to learn from each other for longer periods. And the primary goal then is to have the platform where these cities can collaborate and try to identify common issues. We try to advocate for the needs of medium sized cities on european level.
As far as I know, more than 40% of the european population lives in medium sized cities. And so this is quite important for us and this is why we try to work together and try to find innovative solutions.
[00:07:24] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, absolutely. You mentioned identifying common challenges, and I would love to hear from you, what are those biggest challenges that you've identified?
[00:07:35] Christian Gangl: The biggest challenges, so they are not so different from the challenges that also bigger cities have to face.
In fact, we need to navigate through the complexities of sustainable development. We try to address issues such as climate change, green mobility, digital transformation, that pose also tremendous challenges for larger metropolitan areas. This is the same for medium sized cities, and the actual difference between them lies rather in the conditions under which we are responding to these challenges. And this brings me a bit to the claim of the eurotowns. Big enough to cope, but small enough to care. So the medium sized cities have, compared to the economies and administration of bigger metropolis, limited financial and human resources. And that can constrain our abilities to invest in large scale infrastructure projects or comprehensive urban development plans. So we often struggle with attracting, retaining talents as larger metropolitan areas tend to offer more diverse opportunities and amenities. And there are different and also more challenges. Like we try to balance growth with the preservation of the unique character and also part of our heritage. And so we try to ensure that the development does not come at the cost of cultural or historical identity of our medium sized members.
[00:09:05] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, really interesting. I think that there's a lot of opportunities also that medium sized cities have. Maybe. Can you talk a little bit about how, how there's. Because you say that you are, you're big enough to cope, right.
What does that really mean to you? What is big enough to cope truly mean?
[00:09:27] Christian Gangl: Yeah, big enough to cope is because when we, when you think at even smaller cities, they do not have capacities for like, say, have an officer for international affairs or have the capacity to go after fundings on EU level. So, and this is why I think that medium sized cities are like in between somewhere. So we have members between 50,200, 50,000 inhabitants. And so this is a, this is a number that allows us to have certain capacities so that we are big enough to cope on the one hand side. And on the other hand side, we are just small enough to know what happens in the streets, what happens with our population, what are the concerns of our citizens. So we are very close to the citizens on the other hand side. And this is what makes the challenge and what.
[00:10:26] Tamlyn Shimizu: And the opportunity right at the same.
[00:10:28] Christian Gangl: Time is the opportunity. So this is why we decided to have that claim. Big enough to cope, but on the other hand side, at the same time, small enough to care.
[00:10:37] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, very interesting. I know one of the main goals with your towns is to foster innovation, while also, of course, looking at sustainable growth. Can you share perhaps some more concrete examples of successful initiatives or projects that the member cities have collaborated on?
[00:10:55] Christian Gangl: Yeah, absolutely. Thank you very much for the question. So, a recent project in which five Eurotown member cities collaborated with the project Global Goals for cities. It's funded by Urbekt. This project enabled the participating cities to re or develop their local sustainable strategies according to an integrated action plan and the Urbeck method. And the project result will be distributed among all european or Eurotown members, even cities which have not actively participated in it, they will have the opportunity to learn from it. And currently there are discussions to apply for a follow up project under the working title 1.5 degree lifestyle. And another example of project that is currently ongoing is the project Infogreene. It's also funded by Urbekt. So we have three member cities which actively participate in this project on behalf of eurotowns, which are also organized in one of our task teams. It's the task team sustainable industry.
And this project infogreen started in June 23 for a funding period of two and a half years. And the project aims at the transformation of urbanization, industrial areas, by enhancing the local administration and policymaking. And this is also an outcome that all Eurotown members can benefit from.
[00:12:25] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, very good examples. Are there any opportunities that you see in the future to do more together?
[00:12:34] Christian Gangl: Yeah, lately we try to, let's say, concentrate a bit on certain topics, sustainable industries, innovation. We had more task teams, we tried to concentrate more to join the forces. And this is a part that we would try to foster in the future so that we work together more firmly on that issues, on that project. And the other thing is that we always tried in the last few years to raise our voice so that we can be heard that medium sized cities have a voice that's heard in Brussels, that heard in Europe. It's not that easy, but I can say that we made good progress there as well. And this is also one main topic for us.
[00:13:22] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, very interesting. Maybe we'll just wait 1 minute for the sirens to pass a little bit, otherwise it will be in the recording for a long time. Maybe.
Although it makes, you know, it's a real city sound, so it's okay.
Yeah, exactly.
It was getting quite loud.
Yeah, I could just grab a drink now.
I don't know, sounds. Sounds kind of big.
[00:14:10] Christian Gangl: You'll never know how much of the cars will come afterwards because the fire station is over there. It's not that far. And if they have like more than two or three cars, there will be some more coming down this road. So. But actually it seems as it's okay, I think.
[00:14:32] Tamlyn Shimizu: I think it's okay now. I think we can continue.
[00:14:34] Christian Gangl: Yeah.
[00:14:35] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah. Good.
So I think you already noted some of the successes of these collaborations. I wonder if you have any other notable success that you want to highlight.
[00:14:48] Christian Gangl: Yeah, of course I would like to. So besides the examples of the projects I gave you already, there are also success stories when it comes to our advocacy work in the context of making the EU urban agenda more just and more inclusive.
Because as I mentioned earlier, one important challenge for medium sized cities is that EU policy making and funding mechanisms have initially served mainly to advanced transformation processes in big metropolis. But I'm quite proud to say that Eurotowns has successfully advocated for a change here and was able to push for a greater recognition of cities of all sizes in the Ljubljana agreement of 2021.
The network there is also officially recognized as a, I would like to quote as a mentor organization to involve cities with less resources and expertise. And this is what we talked about just a few minutes ago. And this is the mission that will continue in our efforts to demand the creation of proportionate funding opportunities that are also available to smaller administrations and require less financial means in terms of co funding. And that's also the big difference between these networks. We have a small network, we have a limited capacity in terms of manpower, and then compared to the eurocity, they have a stuff like, I don't know, 100 people that are working for them in Brussels also.
This is why we will go on and make further efforts in this field, in this area where we try to get our voice heard.
[00:16:41] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah.
And that kind of leads into my next point. We've talked about it a little bit on sometimes medium sized cities do lack resources and influence of larger cities. It makes it more difficult to compete on this global stage. How do you respond to this? How do you really get that power back into those hands?
[00:17:01] Christian Gangl: Yeah, as I already mentioned, it's true that medium sized cities may have fewer resources and less influence compared to the larger counterparts. Their strength lies in their agility and close knit communities. That's what I already mentioned. So medium sized cities can implement changes then more quickly and effectively due to shorter decision making change, and also, from my point of view, much stronger community engagement. So medium sized cities are very important because there are very many of them, and they often build the bridge between communities in the metropolitan areas and those in more rural areas. So we are in the intersection and through the networks like eurotowns. These cities can and hopefully will do in future, amplify their voices. They can pool resources.
We try to collaborate on innovative solutions and we try to enhance our competitiveness and also enhance ourselves in terms of sustainability.
And often medium sized cities have quite a unique charm and also good quality of life. And by that we hope that we can attract talent and investment.
So by fostering collaboration and sharing best practices, Europe towns tries to help our members to punch above their weight on the global stage.
[00:18:32] Tamlyn Shimizu: What do you think are, what would accelerate this for you much faster, like this influence?
What would help you get there for medium sized cities much quicker? Is it more cities joining? Is it more collaborations with partners like BABLE?
What would help you get there faster, do you think?
[00:18:55] Christian Gangl: Yeah, I think you mentioned it already. So it's the collaboration like BABLE. I'm looking forward to get to know the BABLE managers and the people there very soon. This is also one point that we try to address, and the other point, of course, is more members. We would like to have more members in the eastern parts of Europe, so, but often there, what we realize is that there's often a problem with language. So in that part of Europe. And I would like to really encourage more the representatives of the member cities. They are very engaged, very engaged members of the administration.
And what I would try to do in a very close huge is get more engagement by city council members of our members. So we will address them very soon and try to foster, and try to strengthen the engagement there a bit because we have one task team that's called strategic policy group. And this is what I would like to have, more vital discussions and more engagement from the political representatives of our Eurotown members.
[00:20:23] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, makes a lot of sense.
Looking ahead, I think you already mentioned, but are there any other things looking ahead that you want to mention? Goals, priorities, important things for people to know?
[00:20:35] Christian Gangl: Yeah, I think we touched already most of what we like to achieve in the future. We would like to strengthen our advocacy efforts at the european level to ensure that the needs and perspective of our members of the medium sized cities are represented in policy discussions on EU level and in terms of content, we will continue to advance, as I said already earlier, our efforts to make also funding opportunities more just and inclusive, so urban stakeholders of all sizes can benefit from then and the other topics. I already addressed a bit. This is digital transformation.
Of course, we do a lot of efforts here in Sindelwingen regarding schools in former years and of course climate resilience. And this is also an area where medium sized cities can also maybe lead by examples.
[00:21:35] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah.
[00:21:36] Christian Gangl: And this is, I'd like to mention this as well. We just joined the network, Eurotown has just joined the task force for Smart and Green cities, which was launched by the European Space Agency. And it's quite an interesting point because the aim of this cooperation is to allow for the development and testing of business solution using space data which are tailor made to tackle climate change induced challenges that made that we, that medium sized cities have to face. So this is also quite important.
[00:22:11] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, the European Space Agency has quite some interesting programs. We've actually gotten involved in one of their funded projects as well, working with port cities. And so there's lots of interesting initiatives out there. So I would invite also other cities to explore this too.
Now, we've spoken a lot about Eurotowns and medium sized cities, but I want to also bring some light to Sindelfingen. And maybe you want to speak a little bit about an opportunity or a project in Sindefingen that you would like.
[00:22:42] Christian Gangl: Oh, there's many of them.
One of the projects that you can see right now is part of inner city development. So we get a completely new garage, underground garage, the building. The work just started a few weeks ago and we as a city try to invest a lot of money in the city development because the core is the heart of our city and the city government, the city council adopted a master plan for the development of the inner city. And this is one major point for us. And the other thing is that as I already mentioned, we are quite a big, big place for Mercedes. It's the biggest Mercedes factory that we have here. And as everybody knows, there's a transformation process ongoing there. And because a lot of people are very much cling to the development of Mercedes and everything with ups and downs of Mercedes, there's the ups and down of our finance in Sindelfing. And so this is quite important for us. So how do they cope with these transformations? And how can we, how can we can be a partner for Mercedes on the one hand side? And how can we prepare us for that change as well? So we always try to have develop places where the kids can go.
We like to develop schools further. So this is a part where we were very. Yeah, this is quite, quite, I'm lacking the english word now. So what I try to say is that we depend very much on what's happening there and this is what we try to prepare for as well. So because I hope they can make a good transformation and this is quite a decisive point for sin living in as well. But I'm quite optimistic because they have the whole area of.
Oh, I'm lacking the words one more time. Making a short break.
[00:25:08] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, sure.
Development.
Research and development.
[00:25:16] Christian Gangl: Research and development. Yeah, this is what I was missing. So they had made their research and development department in Sindelfingen. So I hope that we will still have a strong industrial base in Sindelfingen also in the future. And this is quite important for us because our financial income depends a lot of what happens at the Mercedes plant, but I am quite optimistic with that. So this is a part that is very interesting for us. And we try to accompany all the developments.
And on the other hand side, we try to develop the city by things that I've already mentioned.
[00:25:59] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, it must be a little bit of a balancing act with Mercedes, being that it holds so much power and is a massive employer of probably a big majority of the people and the citizens of Cindofingen. But that also, this transformation needs to happen, this green transformation that needs to happen where we need to move away from cars, where we need to do this. How, from your perspective, can you balance that core cooperation with Mercedes with this bigger transformation.
[00:26:30] Christian Gangl: Yeah, we try to do our job regarding, let's say, for instance, public transport, we try to offer opportunities for people where they can do it in an eco friendly way, and we try to foster the development regarding environmentally friendly heating.
[00:26:52] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah.
[00:26:52] Christian Gangl: So there are big efforts there where we try to. Yeah, I don't know the english word. It's called Fadenwerme.
So because there's a, there's a factory where they burn waste in the, in the sister city and they produce heat. And this is the heat where we try to waste, where we try to use as heat. So, and these are things that we try to support, that we try to do as well.
And at the same time, we try to keep the balance, try at the one hand side, get to those aspects of environmental friendly, and on the other hand side, try to preserve the economical stability.
[00:27:37] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. It's been a thing that many cities, I've talked to many cities about when they have a big industry partner, you know, set up in a city. So it's interesting to hear your perspective on that.
Lastly, I want to ask, what do you think Sindelfingen needs to really accelerate the changes that you want to make happen? What tools are missing, I guess, from your toolbox? Is it that you need more funding? Is it that you need, you know, what do you need?
[00:28:06] Christian Gangl: From my personal, maybe very, very specific point of view, we need to have a quicker decisions and we need to change a little bit the german way of doing things, of having bureaucracy, of letting figure out the very last issue of every topic. So what I learned a few weeks ago by a tv production, they compared us to countries, for instance, like Denmark. And they say, Denmark tries to, they try to try things.
They just start. They do things. And then they say, okay, though we can make corrections. Okay, so a bit more to the left or a bit more to the right, but they start and then they begin, and then something happens. And this is what I miss in Germany, because you have to be very, very perfect before you start. And you have to take into account every single, let's say, let's say every single variable, every variable that you feel most of the people may feel safe say that, okay, there's nothing wrong with that. What we do, and I would tend to say we should more come to a culture where we try out things. Yeah, let's start things and let's tell the people, this is not perfect. And then we can make corrections. And then when we can adopt. And this is what I would say but this is maybe a problem of the whole society. It's maybe a bit of a german, like, addressing things or thinking, I don't know. But this is a point that I would like to see more in public life, more in the communities, more in the countries and the federal republic. So just let's say, okay, it's not perfect doing, but we try to do things, we try to implement things, and then let's see what we can adopt. And there are also maybe things that won't work in the end. But we tried it.
[00:30:23] Tamlyn Shimizu: Okay, this is innovation, right? This is how you innovate and become better, faster. Yeah, exactly. Very good point.
So that's all for the main interview part.
Now we get to a segment, and our segment that we have today is on. It's called shoutout. And it's a time when you get the opportunity to mention a person, an organization, a city that you think deserves way more recognition in the field.
[00:30:53] Christian Gangl: Yeah. When I look at our members, I see that the spanish cities are very engaged in the region of Barcelona, Sabadel, Girona, and the third one, I just forgot it. There are three cities around it. It's.
[00:31:12] Tamlyn Shimizu: You're my Darla. So sometimes.
[00:31:20] Christian Gangl: Manresa.
[00:31:21] Tamlyn Shimizu: That's Mandarisa.
[00:31:22] Christian Gangl: So they're okay.
[00:31:23] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yes. Say it again. Yeah.
[00:31:24] Christian Gangl: Okay. So when I look at the Eurotown members, I see they are very active cities in Spain. In the region of Barcelona, it's Girona, it's Manresa, and it's Sabade. But I also like to mention a city in Sweden which is very active for a long, long time. And this is Evle. And they have really done exemplary work in sustainable urban planning and very good and active role in our network. The initiatives in sustainability, such as creation of climate, agreement between public and private sector, and also the efforts in jevle for sustainable education are very inspiring. So Jevle has also been a pioneer in citizen engagement, involving residents in the planning and implementation of urban projects. I think the commitment of Evelyn to sustainability and innovation sets a big example for other medium sized cities.
[00:32:30] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, very good shout outs. And I actually was thinking we need to do a Eurotown series on the podcast where we maybe travel to some of these cities and get more insights into what they're doing, because there's a lot of incredible cities on this list.
So wonderful. With that is our last question. It's a question we ask every single guest. As you know, this is a smart city podcast. Although we take the smart city term and we turn it into smart places and smart and sustainable places or medium sized cities, any of the above. So to you, I want to ask, what is a smart city?
[00:33:08] Christian Gangl: A smart city. So this is also not very easy to answer. To me, a smart city is one that leverages technology and data to improve the quality of life for its residents. Smart city enhances urban services, promotes sustainability.
I would like to take the chance to say that Solingen is also a big example for sustainability, and smart city involves the integration of digital tools to create efficient, responsive and also transparent governance systems.
But however, smart City is nothing only about technology.
It's also characterized by an inclusive being, an inclusive city so that all citizens can benefit from the advancements and opportunities which are created in the city itself.
So smart city prioritizes also sustainability. It should aim to reduce its environmental footprint and foster at the same time economic growth as we already talked about, and social equity.
[00:34:27] Tamlyn Shimizu: It's a hard task, right? It's a balancing act.
[00:34:30] Christian Gangl: It's like juggling with lots of balls at the same time.
[00:34:35] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, exactly. All right, very good.
That's all of the episode, all that I have for you today. I want to take this the minute and say thank you so much for coming on. I truly, truly appreciate your perspective, hearing all about euro towns, also learning a little bit more about Sindelfingen and also the lovely invite to come here as well in person.
[00:34:58] Christian Gangl: Yeah, it was my pleasure. I really liked it very much and I hope that a lot of people would like to hear the podcast. So thanks very much.
[00:35:08] Tamlyn Shimizu: Yeah, thank you so much. And also a big thank you to our listeners, of course. So don't forget, you can always create a free account on BABLE Dash smartcities EU. You can find out more about smart city projects, solutions and implementations. Thank you very much.
